Please, don't do this guys

Discussion of the different types of witchcraft and pagan paths.
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manshin
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Re: Please, don't do this guys

Post by manshin »

Xiao Rong wrote:where Manshin, you seem to be talking about closed cultures, and others are discussing much more hypothetically about "what if" one were to get a call from a different deity (despite the fact that most people here actually do draw inspiration from "open" practices, like Kemeticism, Wicca, Hellenic polytheism, Celtic mythology, etc. I have really rarely come across anyone here who IS trying to appropriate closed cultures)
Ohhh I see. I apologize if I offended anyone. I am definitely coming from the point of view that we are all on the same topic - that if someone gets a call from a deity and that deity in question belongs to a closed culture/religion. That's what I got out of the OP anyway.
Chalice wrote:This appropriations stuff is a Tumblr hysterical campaign.
Eh, some people DO get really crazy with it (see: SJW) but cultural appropriation is a very real, harmful thing. There are plenty of sociology studies in the academic field on cultural appropriation and how harmful it is.


“Two ways in which cultural appropriation can be harmful are easily identified. The first sort of harm is violation of a property right … The second sort of harm is an attack on the viability or identity of the cultures or their members. Appropriation that undermines a culture in these ways would certainly cause devastating and clearly wrongful harm to members of the culture … Other acts of appropriation potentially leave members of a culture exposed to discrimination, poverty and lack of opportunity.” - from The Ethics of Cultural Appropriation (edited by Young and Brunk)

Also the whole "Oh noes, can't burn Sage... give me a break." is you missing the point to be quite honest. Indigenous people aren't saying don't burn any sage (although I did hear sage is going extinct, thanks New Age wave), they're saying don't sell bundled sage and call it "smudging sticks". It isn't smudging, for the reasons talked about in the original post.
Korean Sorceress/Shaman 만신; witch; Kemetic Orthodoxy
*I do not follow any (Neo)Wiccan beliefs.
AzothPendragon
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Re: Please, don't do this guys

Post by AzothPendragon »

We have to discern between practicing a religion that is not from one's ethnicity, especially an ethnic religion, like the Hawaiians', as opposed to say, Christianity, and cultural exploitation, and plain ol' disrespect, and racism.

I was raised Pentecostal Christian in Hawaii. My racial background is extremely diverse.

I have seen a lot of extremely offensive things in regards to Hawaiian religion and culture.

For example, one church I went to in Tucson, Arizona in the US, they said they are going to have a "luau", for the youth group, and made a bunch of spaghetti, and gave out plastic leis. Then, they had two men dress up in grass skirts and coconut bras, and talk like California "Dudes" for an idiotic skit.

Then, the youth pastor said, "We are going to do a Samoan game," or something like that. And, he had these two idiots put a woman's hose on their head with an orange in the foot, and try to spin it around.

I confronted him, saying it was racist, and he literally laughed in my face, and said there aren't any Hawaiians or Samoans around anyway.

Also, have you heard of Huna? Huna is not Hawaiian, it is not a Hawaiian religion, and was started by an absolute charlatan exploiting the Native culture for personal gain. It's disgusting.

Another time, here on Oahu, a part Hawaiian friend of mine asked me to come with her to this New Age group meeting in a house because her kahuna (which means master or teacher, not priest) asked to her see what this lady was about claiming she was some kind of White spiritual Hawaiian priestess or something. This lady was ridiculous. She is from Massachusetts, and she's either totally delusional, or lying and she knows it. Everyone in the group there was totally White, except me and my friend who are mixed race, and one lady from North Africa.
She proceeded to tell us that she had some spiritual experience about a rainbow which makes her a Hawaiian priestess, and she was called by the Hawaiian gods to unite the Hawaiian islands, (whatever that means!). The whole time she kept looking at my friend nervously.

I play didjeridoo, and I have a lot of respect for Aboriginal culture. I saw a video of an Aboriginal man on youtube saying it's okay that non-Aboriginals play the didjeridoo, but they shouldn't sell them. I understood his point. Aboriginals are generally poor in Australia because of genocide and racism. They are still really suffering, and the government does horrible things, like kidnapping their children, accusing their parents of abuse, to raise the kids in a White society and family. I have never sold a didjeridoo, and after seeing that video, I don't want to.

On the other hand, I realize that one that is not of an "ethnic religion" can practice it respectfully. I think one of the main problems arises when people try to make money and get fame from another culture's religion, but as a private practice, it can be morally okay. It is up to the individual to decide and discern if what they are doing is moral and respectful.
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Please, don't do this guys

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

manshin wrote:
Chalice wrote:This appropriations stuff is a Tumblr hysterical campaign.
Eh, some people DO get really crazy with it (see: SJW) but cultural appropriation is a very real, harmful thing. There are plenty of sociology studies in the academic field on cultural appropriation and how harmful it is.
When I think of actual cultural appropriation, I think of someone who actually actively did damage to the community or communities under false pretenses. A good example, is Carlos Castenada. The people of Tumblr though, do not know who he is and do not care, from my own experience. They're too busy attacking pop culture to care. A model is more important than Carlos, though Carlos does way more damage that lasted decades.

Btw, there is a site for the frauds who appropriate ran by natives: http://www.newagefraud.org/
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
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AzothPendragon
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Re: Please, don't do this guys

Post by AzothPendragon »

That's funny. After I read Castaneda's book, The Art of Dreaming, I had dreams of don Juan. Don Juan told me that he was/is a figment of CC's imagination, induced by taking deleriants which Castaneda himself admits alters the users mind even stronger than hallucinogens to the point where they cannot tell between reality and a hallucination.

Don Juan told me that because Castaneda wanted so badly to have a magickal mentor, he appeared to Castaneda in his dreams from another dimension or plane of existence, but the physical incarnation was all in his head.
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Please, don't do this guys

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

AzothPendragon wrote:That's funny. After I read Castaneda's book, The Art of Dreaming, I had dreams of don Juan. Don Juan told me that he was/is a figment of CC's imagination, induced by taking deleriants which Castaneda himself admits alters the users mind even stronger than hallucinogens to the point where they cannot tell between reality and a hallucination.

Don Juan told me that because Castaneda wanted so badly to have a magickal mentor, he appeared to Castaneda in his dreams from another dimension or plane of existence, but the physical incarnation was all in his head.
Well, his book from a fictional/spiritual perspective can be useful. But I was more of talking about what he did to the anthropology community and other people. See this article.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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Re: Please, don't do this guys

Post by SnowCat »

I have tried to read Castaneda's books. He's too wrapped up in himself, for me to get through one without gagging. I questioned his use of hallucinogens as soon as that appeared in his writings. I'm not convinced that his hallucinations were related to tapping into a higher consciousness or anything useful. To me, it felt like it was his excuse to get stoned.

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