http://ncregister.com/site/article/8121/
Discuss...............
What is a pagan?
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The Mystic Pilgrim
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"But that brings us to our second point: namely that paganism takes two basic forms — pre-Christian and post-Christian. "
Aha.I think not sir.Paganism was wiped out in Europe,circa 1380, officially.Hardly pre-Christian.Grand Duke Jogailia of Lithuania married a Catholic Polish princess and assumed ,at least,nominal Christian status.The Roman Church was greatly relieved as centuries of armed conflict, mainly provided on Rome's side by the Holy Teutonic Orders of Knights,had failed abjectly in crushing the Lithuanian armies of Paganism.Mainly the Knightly Order of the Sun God. [There is an element of leeway on when exactly the remnants of Paganism fully died out or under,after this period also]. The Viking peoples of Northern Europe were also persecuted,hunted down and forcibly converted or murdered well into the late 1000s - early 1100s c.e.I think :Balderdash and piffle.
Aha.I think not sir.Paganism was wiped out in Europe,circa 1380, officially.Hardly pre-Christian.Grand Duke Jogailia of Lithuania married a Catholic Polish princess and assumed ,at least,nominal Christian status.The Roman Church was greatly relieved as centuries of armed conflict, mainly provided on Rome's side by the Holy Teutonic Orders of Knights,had failed abjectly in crushing the Lithuanian armies of Paganism.Mainly the Knightly Order of the Sun God. [There is an element of leeway on when exactly the remnants of Paganism fully died out or under,after this period also]. The Viking peoples of Northern Europe were also persecuted,hunted down and forcibly converted or murdered well into the late 1000s - early 1100s c.e.I think :Balderdash and piffle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gediminas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogaila
I'll bring some evidence of the 'persistant unorthodox beliefs' of the Norse and the Roman treatment of such, in a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogaila
I'll bring some evidence of the 'persistant unorthodox beliefs' of the Norse and the Roman treatment of such, in a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... candinavia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
They also persecuted their own 'heretics' such as the Cathars above.
My point : if you wish to make sweeping statements then perhaps an accurate foreknowledge of your subject matter/assertion might just be advisable.lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
They also persecuted their own 'heretics' such as the Cathars above.
My point : if you wish to make sweeping statements then perhaps an accurate foreknowledge of your subject matter/assertion might just be advisable.lol.
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Shaman of Bliss
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Eretik you do the thread justice, so I will merly say they make some good points about inner truths, the "post-Christans" wanting to escape God. That's what I was looking for in the beggining, but I've grow, matured now my outlook has changed. I don't try to escape god anymore, simply look down on him from high up on upper world journeys, and giggle.
"Pre-Christian paganism was (for the most part) an attempt to find God. It was (as we shall see in our next discussion) often alloyed with all sorts of error and hampered by original sin. But the fundamental goal was a search for God. As such, it was ordered toward reality, though much hampered in the pursuit by the effects of sin.
Post-Christian paganism is, first and foremost, a search for an escape from God. It is a hunt for the blessings of heaven without the trouble of submitting to heaven. As such, it is ordered toward unreality, though much hampered in the pursuit by the work of the Holy Spirit."
Ahem.By whose distinction?Original sin.Pah!
Escape from God.Nonsense,escape from a political,social and patriarchally extreme, heirarchically based Theocracy,more like.Post Christian[ for Christian, here and elsewhere in this article: read Roman Catholic] paganism is the result of the personal and social freedoms fought for by those who refused to submit to the notion of their supposed inequality and inferiority in the eyes of the Patriarchal Abrahamic faiths.The result of modern people being free to read and learn,to make up their own minds without the restricitons of dogma and orthodoxy commanding which books and writings are 'safe' and 'holy' and which were to be avoided as 'unholy' 'evil' and/or sinful.Any one here remember the Vatican banned books list? I do.I can hardly wait for the next sermon, oh, sorry, I mean "discussion" don't I?
The other articles in the commentary section of this site are real howlers too.Is it American,perchance?[not being anti American, it's just US Christian fundamentalism is stranger than any other type,stronger too and weirder,as far as I can tell.]
Post-Christian paganism is, first and foremost, a search for an escape from God. It is a hunt for the blessings of heaven without the trouble of submitting to heaven. As such, it is ordered toward unreality, though much hampered in the pursuit by the work of the Holy Spirit."
Ahem.By whose distinction?Original sin.Pah!
Escape from God.Nonsense,escape from a political,social and patriarchally extreme, heirarchically based Theocracy,more like.Post Christian[ for Christian, here and elsewhere in this article: read Roman Catholic] paganism is the result of the personal and social freedoms fought for by those who refused to submit to the notion of their supposed inequality and inferiority in the eyes of the Patriarchal Abrahamic faiths.The result of modern people being free to read and learn,to make up their own minds without the restricitons of dogma and orthodoxy commanding which books and writings are 'safe' and 'holy' and which were to be avoided as 'unholy' 'evil' and/or sinful.Any one here remember the Vatican banned books list? I do.I can hardly wait for the next sermon, oh, sorry, I mean "discussion" don't I?
The other articles in the commentary section of this site are real howlers too.Is it American,perchance?[not being anti American, it's just US Christian fundamentalism is stranger than any other type,stronger too and weirder,as far as I can tell.]
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amunptah777
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The Mystic Pilgrim
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Well, here's my 2 cents worth...
Pagans were in Europe when the Israelites were still baking bricks in Egypt...
Pagans were in Europe when Mary was screaming with labor pains...
Pagans were in Europe when they executed a religious rabble-rouser right after the Jewish Passover... (Assuming that was a historically based event)
Pagans were in Europe when the Early followers of a Philosopher-Carpenter were struggle to define their message, their beliefs, and their leadership...
Pagans were around in one form or another before homo-sapiens were even homo-sapiens. So, for the Catholic church to try to define a family of religions that was ancient when their founders penned their holy texts is laughable to say the least. (define them as a religous path of outsiders and mal-contents I mean) Ok, maybe we can't directly trace our lineage to covens and circles and temples in the old days; but emotionally and philosophically we are very much their descendants. So, if anyone should be defining another faith in those terms, it should be us. Fortunately, we're not like them. We believe in leaving people alone to believe as they feel is right for them without having to fear persecution or being burned at the stake.
Pagans were in Europe when the Israelites were still baking bricks in Egypt...
Pagans were in Europe when Mary was screaming with labor pains...
Pagans were in Europe when they executed a religious rabble-rouser right after the Jewish Passover... (Assuming that was a historically based event)
Pagans were in Europe when the Early followers of a Philosopher-Carpenter were struggle to define their message, their beliefs, and their leadership...
Pagans were around in one form or another before homo-sapiens were even homo-sapiens. So, for the Catholic church to try to define a family of religions that was ancient when their founders penned their holy texts is laughable to say the least. (define them as a religous path of outsiders and mal-contents I mean) Ok, maybe we can't directly trace our lineage to covens and circles and temples in the old days; but emotionally and philosophically we are very much their descendants. So, if anyone should be defining another faith in those terms, it should be us. Fortunately, we're not like them. We believe in leaving people alone to believe as they feel is right for them without having to fear persecution or being burned at the stake.
As I learned in Philosophy Class, Faith without reason is baseless while reason without faith is senseless. Applying to what Ms. Eretik's said, they do not understand other ways of thinking, let alone believing. Abraham believed even he didn't really know if it's the voice of God. He just heard a voice imposing things on him, kill his only son and stuff. And due his time, killing, is morally wrong but he attempted to submit his son to "God". He doesn't really want the idea of killing but for the sake of "Obeying" the divine, he will make it. "We believe in leaving people alone to believe as they feel is right for them without having to fear persecution or being burned at the stake"-Mystic Pilgrim as said that believing what is right for them, Some religions wanted to control their worship through dogmas and orthodox which may say a convention in their very own community. However, some of these rules inhibit the real nature man. Because of this, other religion became stiff and strict and maybe they are eying too much on paganism because we are more tolerant than they do.
(hmm.. I think I'm posting to a wrong posts
anyways have a nice day)
(hmm.. I think I'm posting to a wrong posts
anyways have a nice day)