marxism vs witchcraft

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Lovingvixen
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marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Lovingvixen »

I need help. I'm a devout marxist, but I also have lots of spiritual beliefs. Technically speaking, my spiritual beliefs don't go against what Marx said, but a lot of people think they do. I believe that Self is the highest power on this earth, but I also believe that Self is the main element that governs the human race. I do support private religious practice. I do support making the earth as good as it can be so that the church is not necessary. I feel like it's hard for me to balance the two. So many communists are so judgemental & closed minded, but so many people don't understand that being a marxist doesn't mean your a bad guy and so many of the same people believe that I worship evil for practicing withcraft. Neither of those is true to me, but I don't know how to bring peace between these two things inside of me. I'm every bit a marxist as I am a neopagan, but I feel like I can't express either equally & properly because of the disequilibrium the human state is in today. Does anyone know anything that might help me deal with all this? I'm the two things society wants to get rid of, but I'm not going anywhere.

PS Feel free to ask me anything about what marxism actually is. Yes, it's a form of communism, but it's not like America makes it out to be & there are way too many misconceptions about it.
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Magickalmooncat

Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Magickalmooncat »

I have a lot of respect for communism and for Karl Marx.
Lovingvixen
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Lovingvixen »

That's cool. You make it sound like you have respect, but are you a communist? & would you have any ideas on how to balance the two?
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katara
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by katara »

wow! i finally found someone with the same ideological stance as mine! I'm a Marxist too and I understand what you are going through right now.

one of the most widely known "fact" about marxists is that they abhor religion because as they say, "religion is the opium of the masses" and believing that there is a greater power than yourself or a higher entity that can smite you anytime is what leads us to wait for our destiny and not do anything about it.

also, there is this thing called dialectical materialism which basically says that our society still thrives because of contradictions and most importantly (that's why they say the we, communists have no religion) we should always be able to provide material basis on ideas. that's why the concept of ghosts and monsters and Gods and Goddesses are always refuted by marxists because they say that it does not have any material basis.

but what i always say to our organization (it's composed of those people who believe in the teachings of marx, lenin and mao zhe dong) is that energy, is a known concept in human history and we cannot refute that. plants, animals, air, water, earth and fire all consists of energy i decided to put a label on those things. like for instance, ghosts. we know that energy never dies, right? so what happens when a person dies? where would his energy go? i believe some of it goes to the earth and some of it still lingers as what it was before, a person.

even before, when the human race is still in the hunting and gathering stage of human society, we believe in the existence of a God and a Goddess and those are the sun and the moon, summer and winter and basically, all things that possess a "masculine" and "feminine" energy and they decided to put a label on it and worship it. so, is there something wrong with worshiping nature? i think not. :)
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by A new found power »

It is difficult in the Western world especially to be a Communist. Just as there was rampant propaganda for Communism in Russia and China, and to some extent still in China, the propaganda against Communism was no less in America and Britain. Many people directly equate communism with the simply catastrophic deaths under Mao Zedong and Stalin. But anyone with half a brain knows that Communism can be either peaceful or violent, and it is, to simplify the issue, a historical shame that both China and Russia chose violent revolution and repressive dictatorships / authoritarian rules.

Synthesizing both Communism and Paganism together is somewhat paradoxical, many know Marx's oh-so-famous "Religion is the opium of the masses." But you must remember that there are many philosophical variants of Communism, and Marx is just one interpretation, that has been developed in many different ways over-time. You could continue attempting to synthesize these views, or find a sub-sect of Communism that can accept the Religious people. Although I'd think Paganism much less an issue to Communism - Marx disliked Religion for its power in social institutions arguably more so then for its intellectual repression; when he spoke of Religion he almost certainly meant the organized kind.

If you strongly feel for both Paganism and Communism, there is absolutely no reason why you can't be both. However, as you know, there are paradoxical elements to this, and it will derive some criticisms from the Communism community. That said, your views should dictate your life, not others view of your life, so don't let others tell you what you can or can't be.

Best of luck
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Xiao Rong
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Xiao Rong »

While I would not call myself a Marxist, I think that a lot of his ideas were really important, in terms of criticizing capitalism and highlighting socioeconomic class difference. I don't find it particularly at odds with Paganism (even though, yes, Marx didn't like religion that much) because my brand of Paganism demands social justice, one aspect of which is reducing economic inequity, and I think our current capitalist system is terrible for both people and the environment. I really don't see much of a conflict at all, unless one tries to hold to literally all of Marx's beliefs (and who does?).
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slithering_dragonfly

marxism vs witchcraft

Post by slithering_dragonfly »

I have not read very much on Marxism, and so I am certainly no expert on the ideology. But I've always found neopaganism to be a bit different than the religions Marx was probably referring to. Most neopagan paths do not condone extremism, proselytizing, or letting religion take over your entire life to where you take no action. And it is those types of things that have rung true to religion being the opiate of the masses for me. I've also always thought of such religion as organized and thus used to manipulate people, whereas most neopaganism is not like that. And since neopaganism is so broad, I'd think you would just follow paths in line with Marxist ideals. Again I can't really comment on the details of Marxism due to my lack of knowledge on it, but that's how I always took the basic concepts regarding religion.
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-Dark-Moon-
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by -Dark-Moon- »

If you believe that the self is the highest power on this earth, go down to the ocean and try stopping the first wave that comes in.

There is always something greater, and less, than ourselves.  

Marrying political and philosophical ideologies with religion is often challenging.  They do make for poor bedfellows. 

Always remember that things you read in books, and all religions, are only GUIDES for living.  They are a direct reflection of the authors experience.  Nothing is tailor-made for any specific individual, and at the end of the day it is up to you to make sense of it and work out how it fits into your life.  Otherwise it becomes dogma, limiting our capacity to think freely.  Perhaps you should read more widely than Marxism and Paganism.  Chaos magic teaches 'nothing is true, everything is permitted'.  While I'm not a hard and fast chaos magician, I find exploring ideas from many different sources intellectually and spiritually rewarding.  Why stop here?

The essential key to the Mysteries is what was inscribed above the entrance to the temple of Delphic Apollo: 
Gnouthi Seauton: "Know Thyself" 
And it was a maxim of divine philosophy for centuries before the Hermetic Corpus was committed to papyrus.

A final word...“The snow goose need not bathe to make itself white. Neither need you do anything but be yourself.”
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Kassandra »

.
Lovingvixen wrote:I'm the two things society wants to get rid of, but I'm not going anywhere.
Nice. :)

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Lovingvixen
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Lovingvixen »

First off, thank you guys for responding :) Secondly, I will say that I do not label myself as any religion, but actually refer to myself as 'spiritual'. I have made sure that any religious tendencies that appeal are not reactionary and in any other sense don't go against dialectical materialism. I know that may be hard to believe, but that's ok. This might be different than what I said before when I posted this topic, but that's only because I've become a lot more grounded. :)

Ok! So: I'm not going to push the "quote" button because it'll take a while, but
In response to what -Dark-Moon- said: Hm, you've got a point. I've actually thought of that before (after I posted this topic, I mean) and I've come to conclude that I should try not to put the power/energy of one element over another. & Thankfully, I definitely am just myself.

In response to what slythering_dragonfly said: I agree with what you said about neopaganism. In a way, it's almost less religious and more spiritual. That's part of what attracted me to paganism in the first place, rather than another form of Christianity or something like it. :) There are some neopagan beliefs that can be quite reactionary, but I think that's almost inevitable in a lot of people and thought processes today. This can also be added to my next response, but there's a lot of people (Marxists, mainly, other types of communists/socialists) that adhere to the idea that the bourgeoisie uses religion as a means of oppressing the working class, and, in many ways, they do. I'm not saying that's all religion is, and obviously we know paganism is a lot different.

In response to what Xiao Rong said: It's cool that you understand the crisis of capitalism. You're absolutely right in what you said. Capitalism is terrible for both people and the environment. There are some conflicts that Marxism has with any sort of religion, but those conflicts often vary depending on the beliefs of the people that consider themselves to be religious, and the mindset of that group of people. What I'm trying to say is that it's more about what you do with religion rather than itself.

In response to A new found power: I absolutely 100% agree with your beginning sentence. I'm not entirely sure what your underlying message is when you talk about China and Russia choosing violent revolutions. I will say that I'm not trying to sound rude or chastise you or anything, I would just like to clear it up that it got to a point in Russia where the Red Army had no choice but to use violence to defend the working class' rights that had been taken away. The reason the violence continued was because of Stalin and his interaction with capitalist countries that further attacked the USSR. I definitely reject any notion that Leninism or Trotskyism was the entire reason that Russia had so much violence. It's unfair to give blame but not tell the background story. Again, I'm not trying to sound rude or attack you or anything, I'm just trying to see if we're on the same page. As for China, I don't know as much about that. I used to, but I honestly just forgot what I read about it. :/ Sorry. You're right when you say that Marx referred to the organized kind of religions, though. I've found a lot of communists/socialists are ok with you being religious, as long as you understand and adhere to the manifesto and fully grasp the meaning of dialectical materialism. That being said, I have encountered a lot of opposition in the leftist communities for my spiritual beliefs, and I understand that. I don't like it and I'm not defending them, it's just that it's to be expected, like you said. I find your last sentence inspiring. I don't let other peoples' views dictate mine or my life (even if it sounds like I do). I thankfully got past that point and now am able to think for myself. :)

Also, (and this goes to everyone) I said that Marxism was a form of communism, but looking back I find that a horrible sentence. Marx and Engels used the terms "communism" and "socialism" interchangeably at times, but using the word "communism" is often used to refer to what happened China with Maoism, and Castroism, and Stalinism. I should point out that I didn't mean to give any impressions that I followed any of the aforementioned types of communism. (Don't know if I did, just wanted to make sure I cleared it up)

In response to what Katara said: Yay :) & You're right when you say that everything (and I'd further that to say "every living thing") has energy. I don't agree with the way a lot of people disregard that fact. I also think you're brave to argue that. I will say that "worshipping" anything can and most likely will be taken as reactionary, but again, the mindset of the person plays a big part.

Sorry to get back to this kind of late.
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Serafanyelle

Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Serafanyelle »

I am left of left... not sure that I identify as Marxist though :D

This is worth pondering though in regards to reconciling the divide between Marxism and religion:

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Lovingvixen
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Lovingvixen »

It's interesting to think about, but I still feel that spirituality doesn't go against Marxism as much as religion does. But then again, as mentioned before, there is the issue of how it's used that plays a big part. and I think I agree with the picture you posted. :)
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-Dark-Moon-
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by -Dark-Moon- »

Out of interest, what kind of Witchcraft do you practice?
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Lovingvixen
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by Lovingvixen »

Well, I don't really have a specific type. I just sort of do what I can and let it be, if that makes sense.
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rjmamula14
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Re: marxism vs witchcraft

Post by rjmamula14 »

I have heard of many Marxist who are not atheists. Marx was an atheist. Basically he believed religion as a mechanism of the haves to maintain the status quo by saying it is ordained by God. He also believed it was a means to keep the have-nots in their place by convincing them they would be rewarded for their work and suffering after death, It is possible to subscribe to Marx’s economic philosophy without agreeing with his religious beliefs and vice versa.
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