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Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

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Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Tegywn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:03 pm

I keep seeing something over and over not only on these message boards but others as well. It seems most people dont understand so I'd like to shed a little light on it.

One does not have to be a witch if they are Wiccan and conversely, one does not have to be a Wiccan if they are a witch.

I'll explain.

Wicca, is a religion. One can be a Wiccan and not cast any spells.
The religion of Wicca is specifically focused on worshiping the Lord & Lady. Getting in tune with your own spirituality. Wicca is about being intimately tied to your own relationship with the God and Goddess.

Witchcraft is a practice, and at it's core has absolutely nothing to do with deities of any kind. Witchcraft is purely using your own energy to effect a desired change. One can practice witchcraft and be a part of any religion. Of course some religions have there own views on witchcraft but I wont get into that.

Then there is that term I'm seeing more and more of the "Christian Wiccan" which is kind of an oxymoron. Being Christian means you follow a strict dogma (a.k.a. the Bible). The Bible specifically teaches that there is only one God, one "Son of God" and one Holy Spirit. No Goddess. Therefor it is my opinion that there is no such thing as a Christian Wiccan. If you use the Christian pantheon in your Wiccan practice, your not a Christian, your a Wiccan. If your a christian that practices witchcraft, your not a Wiccan, your a christian.
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby raynelae » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:13 pm

I totally agree!! It's basically impossible by "definition" to be a Christian Wiccan...they just don't mix.
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Aryn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:57 pm

I agree with you on the Witchcraft and Wicca counts, but on the Christian Wiccan counts - I believe in Jesus, I believe that he was the son of a God, and really THAT is what makes a Christian, not the dogmatic church. (I am also undoubtedly Wiccan). Besides, most of the Christian celebrations are derived from Pagan ones and Mary can be seen as an aspect of the Goddess. Telling people that there is no such thing as a Christian Wiccan is like saying that Wiccan cannot be combined with any other culture's religious beliefs because that is a different dogma, that teaches that those are the only Gods/Goddesses. It simply doesn't make sense. The Christian religion has been twisted into what it is today, it should be a much more open and accepting religion than what it has become. At least that's how I see it.
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Tegywn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Aryn wrote: Besides, most of the Christian celebrations are derived from Pagan ones and Mary can be seen as an aspect of the Goddess.


I understand your point, but consider this.

I'm not saying that its impossible to mix religions but I don't believe someone can be christian AND (insert other religion here). One of the ten commandments, "Thou shalt have no other God before me." specifically forbids worshiping any god besides "God".

So I ask you this, how can someone call them selves christian and purposely ignore one of it's fundamental laws. Wouldn't that be the same as a Wiccan saying that the phases of the moon have no influence?
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Xiao Rong » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:22 pm

I'm not personally Christian or Christian Wicca, and I see your point when it comes to the contradictory beliefs of both, but it seems to me that it's not really a problem when it comes to personal identification. I knew someone who believed in reincarnation but still identified as Catholic, which I found a little confounding, but if it worked for her spiritually, then whatever. If someone draws inspiration from Jesus Christ and the Goddess, and she wants to identify as a Christian Wiccan, why not? what makes Putting labels on things is always tricky when it comes to personal spiritual beliefs, especially when they come in so many flavors. I would find it more problematic to blend Christianity and Wicca in a sensible manner if I were trying to form an institution or a new denomination, though.
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Truthseeker » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:23 am

By definition or label I would be considered a 'christian witch'. Yes- I share the common opinions to a point- that there really is no such thing---but- that is only if you are taking the Bible to the degree that fundamental christians do. I think the key word is 'fundamental'. No- you cannot be a fundamentalist christian and be a witch. THAT is not possible. But the term christian witch is a very broad based definition. It encompasses all those who DO believe in the life and teachings of Christ to almost any degree. Not necessarily those who are part of what is known as traditional christianity.
I for one do not care for the label as such, as I have disassociated myself from the religion and the institution. I do not feel that either represent the message that Christ fought so hard to get across. There is very little, if anything, that is 'christ-like' about the religious system OR the church as a body. But this is not the fault of Christ himself or what he taught.
But if you take the core of Jesus' message, of love and respect and a Mother/Father (yes-both) godhead and the core message of Wicca- love and respect and acceptance/tolerance of all life and the belief in The One, then the two should not be incompatible at all.
In reality I am an ecclectic witch. But my belief system incorporates the core of Wicca and the teachings of Christ, among others. It is my own, to be sure, but there is a very fast growing body of us out there who are considered "christian witches" and also "Christo- Wicca" as well as Christo-Pagan.
And it really bothers me that a religion- both Wicca and Paganism can show such harsh and hard intolerance for ANY other belief system that strives to incorporate the best of two religions when one of the basic tenants of both (Wicca and Paganism) is love and acceptance/tolerance. I am more ashamed of this trait in our Pagan brothers and sisters , by far, than I am in the "christian" population. We have after all come to expect this from them. It is time for us as Pagans to stick together and hold one another up in the spirit of what we SAY we believe, regardless of which 'flavor' of Pagan we might be. None of us believe exactly the same on every point, but if we do not be careful we will become as intolerant as the religion of christianity and when this is the case- who will we be to cast stones?
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Tegywn » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:15 am

You make a good point but think on this.

I'm not saying that one can't be a Christian Witch, I'm saying that by definition one can't be a Christian Wiccan. How can you worship "The one true Father" and "Take no other god before me" and at the same time worship the Lord & Lady, triple goddess, etc.?
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Truthseeker » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:45 am

This is where the whole idea of how dogmatic you are as a 'christian', and how you interpret or apply the Bible as your scripture base. Not all are dogmatic evangelical, fundamentalists and some do believe in the duality of God/dess. In fact most 'christians' have no idea that their own scriptures in the story of creation in Genesis speaks of the Spirit of God breathing on the waters to bring forth life. In the original language the word for Spirit of God was 'Ruah"- a feminine pronoun--- This is not taught in any church that I have ever been in and would be fought strongly if it was pointed out.
The christian faith leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to explaining the existence of the spirit world. Most (but not all) consider that if it is not God or an angel it is an evil spirit. I do not believe there is any basis for this assumption. If God said, thou shalt have no other gods before me then there must BE other gods? I believe even in Wicca there is a recognition of the Lord and Lady as being the Most High Deity/Deities for the most part. This does not contradict for me. I believe that we all find God/dess with and within our own understanding. It is sad that some people are too judgemental and intolerant to allow others this God/dess given right and recognize each person's individuality, (please , I am not directing this toward you Tegywn, but as a statement of fact in general of how people are). I think folks should research and seek information and not just accept that because someone else said it it must be so. I personally believe that a lot has been twisted and mistranslated as far as the Bible is concerned- both intentionally and unintentionally out of ignorance.
I believe that there is a core of truth in all religions and that they all attempt to point to the Divine in whatever language they were born from.
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Holdasown » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:00 pm

I fall under the umbrella of Heathen but I don't rely on Lore alone. If a Christian feels pulled to wicca (the Holy Spirit is in some cases considered female as is Mary) or witchcraft then I can't really tell them they are wrong.
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby raynelae » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:37 pm

Here is how I feel...you can be a Christian Witch (a Christian who practices Witchcraft)..but if you call yourself a Christian Wiccan, you'd actually be more of an Eclectic Wiccan because you would be using some of the beliefs from Christianity in your path. That's just how feel...however, I'm not a Christian anymore so I don't know I guess lol!
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby Truthseeker » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:55 pm

That's actually a pretty good summary of it raynelae. I think no matter what our labels are we are still brothers and sisters and should support each others choices, after all no one can really tell you what to believe. In the end we are all trying to find the Path that is right 'just for us'.
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby raynelae » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:06 pm

Yeah:) I realize at first that I came across as "it's impossible". But really, if that's what someone's path is...then who are we to do anything other than support it as long as they're happy?
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Re: Witchcraft is Witchcraft and Wicca is Wicca

Postby firebirdflys » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:02 am

Because I personally have had trouble with Christians, calling me a Devil worshiper, I don't have a lot of tolerance for someone who wants to blend it all. However, while Wicca is a religion it is also a celebration of the cycle of the year. If you seperate the God/Goddess from our life celebration you have 8 special days in the year. Christianity has already stolen all of these holy days and made them their own, starting with Yule, (Christmas)... Imbolc, Candlemas or(st. Valentines day) ...Ostara, (Easter)... Bealtaine, (May day or lady day)...Litha, (st. Johns day)...Lughnasadh, (Lammas or Mass of the loaves)...Mabon, (st. Mathews day)...Samhain, (all saints day) or (all souls day)... at least they tried to land them as close to the Holiday as possible so that the Pagans could be easily converted.
So if you are just celebrating the cycle of the year with no deities... then I suppose you could blend them. I just think that is for people....(and I've said it before)...want their cake and eat it too. As far as witches and Christians, No Way. Not if you are reading the Bible. Magic was not to be in the hands of the "lay" person, meaning the church was not going to allow anyone to have that kind of power.
I'm a Witch who practices something that resembles Wicca, I am totally comfortable with the knowledge that I will be reborn into the hands of the Goddess.
Here is something I wrote awhile back...
firebirdflys wrote:Hi ya'll After quite a bit of research, this is what our group determined about 15 years ago....
The whole idea if Wicca got a little too fluffy with all the SilverRavenWolf kinds of authors. (sorry... no offense to fans of hers) I believe the word has been misunderstood.
Its true that Wicca is primarily Celtic, but that's probably because the root of the word is OE (old English). It has been said the root of this word means "to bend", that may be partly true, ...because if you are alive... you are capable of bending. Gerald Gardener brought back an archaic word but may have misrepresented it.
The prefix of Wicca is wic, the archaic meaning of wic is qwik, that boils down to quick. Quick means ALIVE, ...if you have been cut to the quick, then you have been injured enough to spill life blood.
So then, Wicca is the celebration of LIFE ...and/or... the reverence of LIFE.
We who would follow the cycle of the seasons, and use the energy and qualities of the cycle to further enrich and empower our lives, are honoring life. (and death)
Blessings, Firebird

This is a topic that will likely never end. Blessings, Firebird
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