Everything Under the Moon

I live in a conservative household that doesn't believe in "tree hugger science" but I'm completely different. I'm really worried that humans are slowly killing the earth, and that we're also slowly killing ourselves. What are your thoughts?

The fossil record shows that the climate has changed in the past, and will continue to do so. It also shows that climate change has accelerated since the onset of the industrial revolution. California is a prime example. Irrigation of the orange groves in California changed the climate there. The climate has been fighting to return to its natural arid state, as evidenced by the ongoing drought. Fire suppression has also affected the climate in a negative way. Lodgepole pines use fire to reproduce. Fire suppression in Yellowstone meant that natural clearing of dead and diseased trees, followed by new growth after the pinecone released their seeds wasn't happening. That led to the massive fire in 1988. Colorado has seen the effects of climate change too. We've had some really bad wildfire seasons, as well as a lot of beetle killed pines, because the winters aren't cold enough to kill the beetle larvae. I would prefer to not have it be true, but the evidence is difficult to deny.

Snow

Do you think things are getting better though?

I think there's more awareness, but trying to stop it, is similar to trying to stop a train. It won't happen immediately.

Snow

I also come from a family of climate change deniers, despite otherwise being very educated about science and accepting of other scientific conclusions, like evolution. Over time, I just had to accept the fact that the scientific consensus is that man-made climate change is happening and will change life as we know it. The best evidence suggests that climate change is not only irreversibly underway, but as time goes on it will only accelerate (for instance, the more ice that melts, the more the earth absorbs heat and melts ice faster, etc.). So no, it probably won't start to improve for a very long time, even if we were to somehow get our act together.

Yah, they said the hole in the ozone layer would never repair either. It did though. Don't underestimate our world. it is very true we effect it. but at most we will kill ourselves off, and the rest of the current life, yet still, long after we are an extinct race it will still be turning, and new life will appear.

True, the ozone layer has started to repair itself, but it'll still be decades before it goes back to the way it was before. And yes, the planet and life will survive with or without us. But we, and many other species, will be impacted and may not survive; those effects of climate change are likely irreversible within a human time span.

Also very true. Reminded of the phrase we reap what we sow.

Global warming is only one aspect of a larger phenomenon called Climate change. That includes more extreme weather, not only temperatures, but long periods of drought or floods, more /larger occurrences of hurricanes, el nino , tsunami etc.

Another evidence for climate change may be migration of certain species to areas where they were not common before. For example in my area, mosquitoes are becoming more common compared to 10 years ago.
What about weather extremes that affect horticulture? This year in Europe, there was an unusually warm weather in early spring followed by frost that damaged a large amount of flowers on trees which resulted in lower production of fruit.

Don't get me wrong. These things did happen in the past and they are nothing new. What is unusual is frequency and scale of these events.

On the other side, it is true that in prehistoric era, there was a period of warmer climate. So this is not the first time that the temperature rises. The problem is that it happens quite quickly in geological terms.

There's also a positive feedback. For example, as the ice melts, the albedo (ratio of reflected and absorbed light on the surface) changes which results in larger absorbtion of heat and further warming.
There are huge amounts of methane below surface in siberia under frozen ground. As the permafrost thaws, methane is released and the temperature increases, causing higher release of methane.

So no, not whole climate change is caused directly by human activity. But human activity serves as the well known movement of butterfly wings that enhances natural cause and effect cycle of positive feedback in the atmosphere.

It is honest to say that a few studies of GW were manipulated and were found not to describe the actual state of the problem.

However, it is still evident that the climate changes and people will have a hard time in the future to get used to it.

To be honest, I don't quite understand the American problem with accepting the issue because the rest of the world accepts it as a fact. (in fact, yes, I do understand the economical motive of certain industries :-p)

Source : me, environmental science graduate

(disclaimer to prevent possible misunderstanding : this post was not written to defend some stupid and contraprodictive "ecological" practices that are presented as a solution. I'm not a fan of "green washing" in marketing either)

I'd more describe what we did is stack to much mud onto a hill already full of mud, and now its starting to mudslide.

I really worry about things getting better..remember the 7 generation rule, what you do today will take 7 generations to repair.
By the way Snow, did you see any orange trees when you were here? The SFV was a huge orange grower, now there is only one small grove at CSUN, even Orange county doesn't grow oranges for export. It's not only orange trees California imports water for it's sorgum, corn, broccoli, kale, strawberries, garlic, onions, walnuts, pistachios, avacados, almonds (though the last two are getting yanked out because they use TOO much water.) And the list goes on. Florida produces way more oranges than California, and oanges are coming from South America more and more nowadays.
Manicured lawns and cattle are very big contributers to co2, and then there was this disaster... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... tudy-says/
I posted about it when it was happening... http://everythingunderthemoon.net/forum ... 32547.html
If there's a hole in the atmosphere it's way huge over the SFV.
The impact drought and that of the bark beetle was really evident in Yosemite this trip, so sad and scary to see all those trees turning brown.
Is global warming real?...you bet your sweet bippy.
Will we see it turn around....probably not in our lifetime.
Bb, Firebird

I saw lots of Palm trees and lots of poverty. I remember when we went to Disneyland in 1985, the park guides talked about how the orange groves had changed the climate. While we were out there this year, a guy remarked that I probably found Los Angeles to be a lot different than the Denver area. I told him other than palms instead of pines, it's pretty similar. The Venice Beach Boardwalk is like East Colfax with a beach. Something has to change.

Snow

Yea, palm trees. *California the land of fruit and nuts* Now we have this to be concerned about. http://www.cbtownandcountry.com/weevil- ... alm-trees/
So if this becomes epidemic as feared, the plam icon may be a past image.

I think about this valley when it had oranges, and all that irrigation must have made it like a hothouse (ie; greenhouse) here. We are a desert, and thanks to Mulholland, we almost drained Mono lake. Many people are installing rock gardens, I like native plants. Yet a particular person that lives with me isn't will to let go of the lawn.

SnowCat wrote:The Venice Beach Boardwalk is like East Colfax with a beach. Something has to change.

that made me laugh, though not a pretty picture. I remember the first time I drove into Denver...expecting the mile high city to be crisp and clean, boy was I surprised to see it blanketed in smog and that was 1977. But then it was bad here too then. In watching Gunsmoke re-runs (that were mostly filmed in and around the SFV) it was really smoggy, and those are from the early 1970's? Emission control has helped greatly, but I don't think every state has smog testing?? We need to do more faster.
It's sad seeing the pistachio avacados and almond trees get cut down because they use too much water. Last year our neighbors friend cut down his whole avacodo orchards to plant lemons because they use less water. (We did have lots of fire wood from those avacado trees) Makes prices go up too. It's a terribly vicious cycle.
FF

The SFV and the Platte Valley are both subject to temperature inversions. The Cheyenne and Arapahoe told the white settlers about the smoke problem in the area, but then gold was discovered. Now we have wind farms on the plains, to generate electricity, but those are killing our raptors.

Snow

Not sure. But all the planets are getting hotter, not just earth. I believe that we are moving into a more energetic part of the universe, and that we are on the verge of transcending from 3rd-4th density beings into 4th-5th density. I also believe that this energy shift started in 2012, and that is why that year was so important in many ancient calendars. Also, it explains why people are acting crazy... If you were a low vibration being before the shift started, your kinda at the bottom of the land slide. People are shedding their lower vibration energies and if your not, your catching the run off... Either way, things are changing fast. In the whole solar system and here on earth. I'm personally cant wait for transcendence. I hear its going to happen right after there is reported sightings of deceased loved ones on a mass level. Call me crazy, but that is what I believe. If you want to know where I got my info look up Corey Goode, David Wilcock, and "The Sphere-Being Alliance".