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Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:16 pm
by loona wynd
While I know that Hoodoo is not a religion per se, that does not mean it doesn't have spiritual beliefs or have some aspects of the practice that can be traced to religions. One of these examples is the use of prayers and petitions of various Saints or Prophets from the bible and Christian faiths. This is actually one of the things that drew me to Hoodoo as a magical practice,

My mother was raised Catholic. So she instructed me on a few of the Saints as well as on the angels. The concept of praying to Saints seemed to be one of the things she taught me that ultimatley lead to my path as a witch through seeing other types of spirits and beings petitioned. Now not being Catholic I don't know about the Saint Holy Days and actual prayers. I just had the most basic concept of working with them.

Within Christianity there is one more set of sacred beings that I have not seen mentioned in any books on Hoodoo. That set of beings would be the Arch Angels. I wonder if these beings aren't worked with in HooDoo because there are other magical traditions that deal with them (Ceremonial magic does as well as Enochian Magic). Yet it seems to me that they would still be workable entities within Hoodoo knowing the history of the practice.

Have you seen or heard of the archangels being petitioned in HooDoo?

Do you work with any of the Saints in petitions?

Have you heard about working with the prophets in the bible?

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:06 am
by -Dark-Moon-
Petitioning an Archangel would be completely counter-productive.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:13 pm
by firebirdflys
Unfortunately I know next to nothing about archangels, probably because they smack too closely to Christianity, which is something I have a very hard time swallowing. I have a friend who is in the TOT and she talks about them, and I have been to a few of their public rituals, which are really great, but still I don't resonate with them.
Recently I was talking with Orion Foxwood who is very well versed in conjure and root work, but I don't believe he spoke of working with Archangels. I'll check back with him and see what he says.
BB, FF

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:39 pm
by loona wynd
-Dark-Moon- wrote:Petitioning an Archangel would be completely counter-productive.

Honestly? Really? Why do you say that? I'm not being cheeky. I seriously want to know why you say that is. I know I can sound sarcastic and crazy stern in some cases this is not one of them.

Like I said I have a basic familiarity with the concepts of the Archangels. I don't know much other than their names and bare basic associations. I know for example many people pray to the arch angel Micheal for healing. I also know that the LBRP works with the arch angels in cleansing and purifying spaces.

I posted this thread to try and not only learn a bit more about these forces and beings but also to see what else has been done out there.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:36 pm
by loona wynd
firebirdflys wrote:Unfortunately I know next to nothing about archangels, probably because they smack to closely to Christianity, which is something I have a very hard time swallowing.
Well they are related to Christianity. They are a part of non biblical Christian Lore. I think they are mostly found in Catholicism but I can't be sure about that.
firebirdflys wrote:I have a friend who is in the TOT and she talks about them, and I have been to a few of their public rituals, which are really great, but still I don't resonate with them.
The TOT? What's that?
firebirdflys wrote:Recently I was talking with Orion Foxwood who is very well versed in conjure and root work, but I don't believe he spoke of working with Archangels. I'll check back with him and see what he says.
BB, FF
That would be great. Input from any and all resources and sources is always acceptable.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm
by firebirdflys
TOT is the Temple of Thelema.
FF

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:37 pm
by loona wynd
firebirdflys wrote:TOT is the Temple of Thelema.
FF

Oh I see. Thank you. The only Thelemic order I was familiar with is the OTO.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:15 pm
by -Dark-Moon-
Angels are a non human race of divine consciousness (not archetypal collective unconscious or religion per se) concerned with the order of things. Archangels are at the top of that order. You will experience their interactions according to whatever (religious or otherwise) framework you're using to access them. Abrahamic religion is but one looking glass through which to interact with them. They are consciousness related to divinity not deity (God).

They are not a slave race that exist to do your bidding. They do not function for your egocentric desires. Approach them with that attitude and you may find you get slapped upside the head, or just ignored.

The best way to experience these things Loona, is to try these things yourself. That's the only way to determine the value of any of it. As Firebird mentions, what's of value for some in this incarnation, may not be the right path for others this lifetime.

You make a point of saying that you are a true seeker. Therefore, at some point, you have to get your hands dirty ....:flyingwitch:

If you do decide to try this, be sure to share your results with us.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:29 pm
by random417
Loona, angels in the simplest sense of the word are just servants of the divine. We could spend forever splitting hairs, but I think everyone would agree with that one. As long as you hold with and consider yourself to serve a divine being out beings, you have a common ground with angels.

Might I as a Ceremonial Magician suggest that you try introducing yourself to an angel BEFORE doing any practical work with them? Sandalphon is pretty willing to help people learn.

I agree with Dark moon and firebird. Get to know an angel or 2, they actually do pretty well telling you what they like, and please do share what you can, it's a different way of working with them, and I must admit to being intrigued.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:36 pm
by loona wynd
I have worked with them within the LBRP before. That was my first experience actually calling upon them. It was then that I was really introduced to them. The LBRP is very powerful for me and has been an interesting experience. That's really the only way I've worked with them.

I've been told by angel readers and the like that Micheal is one who is looking out for me but I've never really had that experience myself. In fact I really haven't felt like any of the arch angels are looking out for me. There could be one I just haven't met or worked with one on one yet. I have other spirit guides I've done work with so maybe they just have been waiting for me to initiate contact. I honestly dont know.

I'm actually going to an angelic forces workshop tomorrow with my mother to learn more about them. I'm excite because its going to be fun to learn. I'm expecting and hoping for meditation to be part of the experience. So I may find out my angel guide tomorrow or I may just have more knowledge to build from to start my exploration of this practice.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:09 pm
by Isis3Anubis
I did an anti-bullying ritual invoking St. Michael to protect my nephew without harming any of the other children including the bullies. We'll the following month his school did a whole anti-bullying lecture for the whole school where they gave out awards to the most polite children in each class. My nephew won his award for his class and was honored with a star certificate most likely child to spread goodwill with his classmates. He was only six years old but he was so proud!

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:13 pm
by loona wynd
Isis3Anubis wrote:I did an anti-bullying ritual invoking St. Michael to protect my nephew without harming any of the other children including the bullies. We'll the following month his school did a whole anti-bullying lecture for the whole school where they gave out awards to the most polite children in each class. My nephew won his award for his class and was honored with a star certificate most likely child to spread goodwill with his classmates. He was only six years old but he was so proud!
I would be proud as well. Good manners and being polite is a great thing these days and is not seen as much as one would think. It sounds like the ritual you did was effective. Was he bullied any more or did the lecture and his award stop that sort of thing?

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:27 pm
by Isis3Anubis
He is an angel at school and gets along with the other children but he is a little sensitive so he was getting picked on by the other kids. That has stopped and now he has a good time with his peers.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:52 pm
by loona wynd
Isis3Anubis wrote:He is an angel at school and gets along with the other children but he is a little sensitive so he was getting picked on by the other kids. That has stopped and now he has a good time with his peers.
I'm glad to hear it. Its important for children to have friends.

Re: Saints, Prophets, and Archangels in Folk Magic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:21 pm
by Kassandra
-Dark-Moon- wrote:Approach them with that attitude and you may find you get slapped upside the head.
Hahahahaha Did she just say, "slapped upside the head"? Well, I must say, they have a unique way with words that can at times be quite uplifting and illuminating. But, at other times, they could be quite ...cutting. It's all said in good faith, though. But yeah, at times, they can be a bit ouch when you have the wrong attitude, and you get a little slapped upside the head verbally, at-least. lol



loona wynd wrote:Within Christianity there is one more set of sacred beings that I have not seen mentioned in any books on Hoodoo. That set of beings would be the Arch Angels. I wonder if these beings aren't worked with in HooDoo because there are other magical traditions that deal with them.

1. Have you seen or heard of the archangels being petitioned in HooDoo?
2. Do you work with any of the Saints in petitions?
3. Have you heard about working with the prophets in the bible?

1.
Yes, you're in luck. I have seen them petitioned before in hoodoo. They are referred to as "Saint" this or that, rather than Archangel So and So. So, instead of Archangel Michael, I have seen petitions, candles, image cards, etc., for "Saint Michael," or Saint Gabriel, Saint Raphael, etc. The hoodoo protocols for this seem to me to be directly influenced by Catholicism, and therefore nearly identical in approach (as in the petition prayers used, "assigned colors" and other correspondences, novenas, 9-day vigil candles, the works).

2.
Not my cup of tea. I have always just talked to the angels ("arch" or otherwise). It would be awkward to me to do formal, ritualistic things just to talk to them. I have never experienced that they had such caveats for communicating with them --you just talk to them like you would another human being. I suppose I would have the same approach with the saints, prophets, etc., if I were interested in them. It just doesn't seem to me that these people should be "petitioned" if you read their stories. They were all just standing up for their beliefs during their lifetimes, like Yeshua ("Jesus") was. Buddha was just sharing ideas that he thought would liberate peoples' minds. In fact, he was an atheist and didn't believe in gods and other other divinities. So, when I see people praying to and petitioning these statues of Buddha, it just puzzles me. Do they not know his teachings?

I've studied many religions, and I just don't get the impression that "holy people" anywhere ever wanted people to worship them, or ask them for a bunch of favors. If anything, it seems they just wanted people to recognize the divine within themselves. I think human beings at this time lack this ability. It seems to be a human habit to strive after the divine outside of ourselves.

Humans have a curious compulsion to lower themselves and worship other beings. The funny thing is, I haven't heard of any other beings having the same compulsion toward humans. That should tell us something...

3.
No, haven't come across any info on working with the prophets in hoodoo yet. But, that sounds like it would work though. Prophets are practically deified among some folks. And each of the Biblical prophets have enough iconic trappings and storyline idiosyncrasies that I could totally see similar hoodoo set-ups for them as with Biblical saints proper, and the archangelic "Saints."

You name it, humans will worship it, lol.


OK, bye-bye. I'm not supposed to be here. :wink2:




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