Everything Under the Moon

I don't recommend trying that. It's a very dicey proposition. Maybe someone else here has some ideas.

Snow

Maybe I'm mistaken but it sounds like you want to punish yourself if you're not too careful?

Please take the time to read "The Magic of Pinewoods Cemetery" in this section to get some perspective on what your planning. I will bend every talent I have to your problem if you'll PM me. I've been in the Arts for 50+ years. I was instructed by two of my Greatgrams. One a Carpathian and the other an AmerInd, that gives me a view of problems from a perspective of the Craft and Indian Medicine. Trust me, I'd think thrice before doing what you plan. Then I would NOT do it. You don't want to play with the continuity of time. Admittedly I need a text book and the two calculators the kids used in school to deal with quantum physics and string theory. Reality is not the kind of thing you should mess with. You don't want to deal with an entity that if you said - "I want a diamond as big as my fist." you would have one AND BE SIX INCHES TALL. Dane, please put a little about yourself in the intro section. Let us get to know you. Let us help you. You haven't been in the craft that long. You could have just done a summoning without checking this forum to see what others thought about your planned actions. Please listen to that voice of caution you heard from deep within yourself. I'll check my PM's and the intro section throughout the days ahead.

1. There is NO way to safely summon an entity and bend it to your will. Payback is always a condition.

2. Self control comes from will and self esteem. Nothing magical about it.

DaneClark wrote:I need to know

It's quite easy after about 2 years of training, at least 5 hours per day, consistently. Plus I'd charge you for my time because I have better things to do with my time, so it has to be worth while.

Still interested?

Just Two? Your easy and dangerous. You do realize that's not some "I want a million dollars." request. It's a request to manipulate the flow of time. We're talking causality loops and the integration of the personality of an actual living human being. This is not some theory of magical practices exercise.

planewalker wrote:Just Two? Your easy and dangerous.

Haha nope, I just know what I'm doing.

You do realize that's not some "I want a million dollars." request.

Right. That's why I responded with what it would actually take, under proper guidance, to get to the point DC wants. I was also assuming they have a basic understanding of witchcraft (any level of basics will do), because they posted on a witchcraft forum with a request the hi hat was rather advanced.

It's a request to manipulate the flow of time. We're talking causality loops and the integration of the personality of an actual living human being. This is not some theory of magical practices exercise.

Actually, it was a request to safely summon an entity which will be obedient and grant wishes. There are a very many "little" entities that can do that. It's funny that people jump to the extremes when it comes to evocation. They think they need some King or Governor or Lord over the Earth.

And, for the record, the majority of actual magic practices excersice are not theoretical.

Seriously, how many decades have you been doing this? Yeah, if your good enough you can get something minor to do your bidding with not much more than a cantrip. That's if your a good enough teacher with a student with the proper disposition and talents. Don't make a set promise of time and effort. How many students have you had? How long were any of them your pupil? I also have definite reservations about taking a student for pay, but that's your ethics not mine. Beyond that, how current are you in physics, quantum physics and string theory there Skippy. I admit to having only a passing Intelligent laymans knowledge of it. That's 6 credit hrs. and reading on my own over a couple issues that really intrigued me. You did notice the reference to the Schroedinger's Cat problem. That's not how often a good owner changes the litter box. How much do you know about the Heisenberg Indetermincey Principle. Should - { Epsilon E Epsilon t be greater than, equal to, or less than h/z }? That's without opening another window and checking it out in a science forum. We are not talking about the granting of a simple wish. If you state that, your being disingenuous at best, dangerous at worst. The one thing I agree with is that it's not theoretical. This is very, very real. It has real consequences. I really think you should re- read the full request and to actually integrate the FULL meaning of what was written. You seem to like to speak of assumptions. I am not assuming that you actually took into account the likely age of the person making the inquiry. I assume your taking into account the risk assessment ability of someone with certain brain regions suppressed by medical history. [REDACTED] That's what usually happens when you assume.

Some good points. But if not Corvidus, then somebody else who may not be adept at all in summoning.

What I mean by that is, if the OP is determined enough, he'll find another way. It's better he gets help from someone knowledgeable rather than a fool. You never know.

planewalker wrote:Seriously, how many decades have you been doing this?

3 dacades when we get into September

But you're totally missing the point of my posts in this thread. The OP is looking for an easy method to manifest an entity. I was trying to point out that it takes time and dedication to actually achieve something like this, regardless of experience.

To answer what appears to be your more pressing question. I don't know anything about physics or quantum mechanics. Why would anyone want to get involved in that rat race?

Next time you get a chance, consider that throughout history science has always been proving itself wrong in one way or another

Actually you help me clarify my position, thank you Tutmosis. I am in no way refusing help. I am instead offering my services to search for a good out come that Dane hasn't thought of short of a summoning. A summoning that may be as dangerous as it could be unnecessary. It would also take less time than being instructed in the proper manner. There are always many alternatives. It costs nothing to look at those alternatives before either investing MANY years in learning to SAFELY summon the TYPE of ENTITY that could re-order time or acting dangerously and precipitously. I can feel the time sensitivity of the problem in question.

I'll take your stated rational for your offer to Dane at face value. It's not my place or wish to judge. All things have a way of changing over time. I believe I do not want to increase the amount of ignorance in the world by NOT learning all I can about everything I can. One can not use knowledge, ANY KNOWLEDGE, that one does not have. Things are proven right and wrong and today's magic may BE the next days science. Personally I don't have the personal hubris to consider myself worthy of doing more than offering my assistance to ANY who need or want it.

We do not conjure and direct the Gods we extend invitations. We need be very cautious employing Magick for frivolous purposes, influencing the affairs of others and selfish advantage. Nothing in Nature is free. As in physics there is always a price to be paid. If we are not willing to accept an unknown compensation for what we ask perhaps we should not ask. Also we are not wise enough to see into deep time the potential consequences of our acts. Can we be certain we will harm none? When we employ Magick we are held to a higher standard of ethics and our mettle is severely scrutinized because we are in training to eventually walk with Divinities.

To the thread starter: Be careful. Think like this: What would you need to do to "summon" another human to follow your will, and how would he or she experience it? If you are successful in forcing, expect backlash, not only from the spirit but from its possible friends. If you intend to trade, expect it to be pricey, like giving access to your mental resources for an extended period of time. Also, the type of beings you connect with may not have your best interest at heart.

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Star, The object was to summon a [)em0n to do some time line and personality modification. Dane decided to use some much less extreme measures. He's doing better and is still working towards all he had wanted to accomplish with a very dangerous summoning. He has no experience in the Arts and was going to attempt it cold. I was happy he decided to be more patient and circumspect.