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is there anyone willing to do this little questionaire for..

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is there anyone willing to do this little questionaire for..

Postby Enchanted » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:24 pm

HI,
My name is Enchanted, I'm doing a paper on witches and wiccan. My mom has been a witch for quite awhile and has led me in this direction. Im fairly new to this craft and im in no way experienced. i have asked her and a few of her friends the same questions i would like to post here for anyone willing to answer. I am looking for a broader perspective from many people ive not ever met. If i offend anyovvne please understand that it was not my intentions and i apologize for it upfront. if you do decide to answer these question i would like to thank you in advance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long have you been a witch?


How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?



What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?


How long have you been practicing Wicca?



How has Wicca affected your life?


What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?



Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?


What does magic mean to you?



How does your family or community feel about your preference?


Are you in a coven?



How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?


What activities can you explain that take place during worship?



What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?


Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?



I have the triple goddess tattooed on my body. This symbol to me means where I’m at, where I’ve been and where I’m going. It also has the pentacle in the middle of the full moon. What symbols have the most significance to you and why?
Enchanted
 

Postby Hubertus » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:37 pm

I am more than willing to fill out your questionnaire. There is nothing that I value more than the drive to obtain information. I hope my answers are useful to you and your survey.

How long have you been a witch?
I have been a witch since 2008, 2 years.

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?
A long time ago, I found out that I was dissatisfied by the fact that I was baptized as a baby. Back home, catholic schools were a lot better than non-religious schools, so I really had no choice. I wanted to believe what I believed, not what I was taught to believe. I don't know how I came upon Wicca, but when I did, I strongly felt that it was what I believed.

How long have you been practicing Wicca?
2 years, same as the first answer.

How has Wicca affected your life?
Wicca has effected my life in both positive and negative ways. It has allowed me to obtain a deeper understanding of the world, and the people in it. It has allowed me to believe what I believe, without anybody telling me what I believe is wrong. But it has cost me as well...It also means that I have a secret that I must keep from everybody. And through the process of keeping that secret, I have sacrificed the chance to learn of any other witches in my area. It has given me great joy, but sorrow as well.

What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?
I honestly don't know the answer to your question.

Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?
I invite the elements by lighting a candle in their honour and verbally inviting them to me.

What does magic mean to you?
Magic, too me, is a sacred power that must not be abused for personal gain.

How does your family or community feel about your preference?
The do not know. I have kept my secret without fail.

Are you in a coven?
No, I am not in a coven of any kind. I am a closet witch.

How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?
See previous answer.

What activities can you explain that take place during worship?
I partake in no special activities when I worship. I prefer to sit down and make a symbol with my hands, however, because I am commonly in the presence of others, I commonly resort to just thought.

What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?
The difference between a good witch and a bad witch, in my mind, is a matter of principle. A good witch takes care of their community and nature, not because they receive something in return, but they feel it is the right thing to do. Even if they don't use any magic, they will still find a way to help. They are accepting of other's beliefs, and don't question them if they don't agree. A bad witch is somebody who harms others by way of magic or normal actions. They use their powers to bend the wills of others and shamelessly control people. They attack the beliefs of others and make them feel horrible for believing what they want in the first place.

Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?
Yes, I do indeed have a daily ritual, though it isn't really a ritual. Every day, I walk around the perimeter of my community (And a long walk it is) and banish negative influences. I check for anomalies and do my best to mend any problems I see. I keep a watch over my entire community so that no harm may befall anybody or anything within it.

I have the triple goddess tattooed on my body. This symbol to me means where I’m at, where I’ve been and where I’m going. It also has the pentacle in the middle of the full moon. What symbols have the most significance to you and why?

I do not know of many symbols. However, there is 1 that has a special meaning to me. To me, the pentacle is the symbol of what I believe, and what nobody can ever take away from me.

Well, that took some energy, but I hope my answers help you. If there is anything else you need, just ask.
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Postby Witch13 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:42 pm

How long have you been a witch?
I have been interested in witchcraft since i was a little guy, books, movies, series.. Its been about 2 years i am a witch, meanign the thing has settled in me and i have chosen to walk that path! I have a triquetra tattooed on my wrist which was my dedication.

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?
You just know, its a lot different to read about it in books and to experense it so i think that the time you have really chosen your path is when you first experiense the "magic" and you get the feeling "this is it, thats my thing"

What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?
Honestly? The charmed :) And my very early steps in witchcraft were a tarot deck i had gotten from an astrology magazine (those cheap tiny cards) which i would use to do divinations for my cousins!

How long have you been practicing Wicca?

2 years

How has Wicca affected your life?
I have changed, in many ways, my thinking, my feelings. The me now has nothing to do with the person i was 3 -4 years ago and i have met some extraodrinary people!

What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?
More educated and informed, having internet and e-bay. And 50 years ago being a witch you were treated a lot worse than today, that has changed. On the other hand witches these days are less connected with nature.
Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?
In my rituals? depends, most of the year i am in the city so i have to use what i can find to represent each element such as feathers, salt indoors.
When i am in the country side i just get outside.

What does magic mean to you?
Lots.

How does your family or community feel about your preference?
My family doesnt know, and i dont think i will ever tell them, they wouldnt understand it. fresh memory: the other day i was about to do some coffee divination, i had the cup in my hand and she said that i shouldnt do that because its the work of Satan!

Are you in a coven?
No

How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?
~~~
What activities can you explain that take place during worship?
Worship? Witches dont do worship.


What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?
my head has been spinning to find the right words and i am stuck.. :?
honestly

Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?
not really.
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Postby JBRaven » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:43 pm

How long have you been a witch?
I have always been drawn to this religion but I started to consider myself a witch 14 years.

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?
I have always felt connected to energy and nature and paganism seemed to fit me most.

What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?
Being active in the balance of things instead of watching it happen.

How long have you been practicing Wicca?
I practiced for 5 years then felt drawn to a more self made paganism.


How has Wicca affected your life?
Being a witch has made me understand the negitive things in life are just as beautiful as the positive. and it has made me a black sheep.

What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?
I think we are lazier. reading instead of doing being worried instead of living. We take our freedom for granted.


Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?
In my everyday life I invite the elements in by doing all sorts of things. Everymonth my husband and I go on "Elementale dates" I try to feel the elements in the way I cook for my family. the way i dress and how my house is set up is all connected with my relationship with the elements.

What does magic mean to you?
To cause reality to conform with my will.


How does your family or community feel about your preference?
My family are mostly sad for me because I am going to hell. My generation mostly are happy that i found something that I love. My brother and I share magical ideas at leat once a week. My community doesn't care as an army wife the people I choose to hang around accept and lightly poke fun.

Are you in a coven?
NO


How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?
N/A
What activities can you explain that take place during worship?
A spiritual connection with the energies of the earth.


What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?
There are none what you consider "bad" one might consider good. It is all perspective.

Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?
I wrote a meal prayer to say before eating, I do a protection chant over my daughter as she sleeps.

What symbols have the most significance to you and why?
The stars. Stars for me are protctive. they are both god and goddess. They remind me that time is perspective. star is my daughters middle name. My most loved book is called StarGirl. tars to me are a symbol of life dath and rebirth I have a billion ( ok maybe 20) stars on my body.
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Postby Enchanted » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:59 pm

i want to thank you all so much for answering my question i truly appreciate your time i took from you. Thank you greatly
Enchanted
 

Postby JBRaven » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:29 am

no problem that is what we are here for.....
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Postby Greek_Male_Witch » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:37 am

How long have you been a witch?

Since 2007 (wow that makes it 4 years already!)

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?

I didn't, I just studied it and I thought that this was what fits me most,plus Charmed was the first thing that made me want to study and see what witchcraft is! (witch13 charmed fan too? lol)



What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?

The thing that I can change my life in the way I want to.

How long have you been practicing Wicca?

Since 2007!



How has Wicca affected your life?

It affected my life a lot...I can't explain how...


What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?

I don't really know, maybe we use different ingredients and we are more informed and a bit more free to believe what we believe without being prosecuted and burned.


Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?

No, its not something you explain, is something you do and feel, each individual has a different view on this!


What does magic mean to you?

My life, My power....



How does your family or community feel about your preference?

My family seems to have accept it, although I have a few members that I haven't told yet, my best friend followed me, so he is a witch too!


Are you in a coven?

No!



How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?

I'm not in a coven...


What activities can you explain that take place during worship?

Not in coven....



What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?

A good witch can cast spells and do things that will NEVER harm nobody, a bad witch will attack with spells against another witch or will cast a spell to gain what he/she wants without caring how his/her spell will affect someone else's life.


Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?

Yes, I cleanse my crystal into salt everyday![/b]
What Goes Around,Comes Around!
You can always see my blog here http://zithiraxbookofshadows.wordpress.com/
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Re: is there anyone willing to do this little questionaire f

Postby LorriePaige » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:10 pm

How long have you been a witch?
Two years.


How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?
I was practicing it a little unknowingly for many years. While "searching", I studied MANY religions and I found this one to be perfect for me along with still being a Christian. I combined the two which is perfect for me.


What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?
It being heavily focused on nature. I LOVE NATURE.


How long have you been practicing Wicca?
Two years.


How has Wicca affected your life?
I'm more confident in life. I know more about who I am as a person. I feel more whole and complete, especially regarding my faith.


What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?
We are A LOT more open now. Pagan Pride and other gatherings are everywhere!


Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?
I simply ask them in. On my altar, I have four objects representing the Elements, and when I am at my altar, I face each Element as I call out each one.


What does magic mean to you?
For me, it means working with spirits and nature to change the future that will be positive for all involved.


How does your family or community feel about your preference?
My family lives on the other coast, and they know nothing about my faith. My community is fine with it. I live in a pretty liberal city--Portland. :)


Are you in a coven?
Yes. I am a High Priestess of a brand new online coven called RavenDove.


How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?
I formed it this past New Year's Eve's Blue Moon.


What activities can you explain that take place during worship?
Since it is an online coven and brand new, I have not yet worked out doing rituals in real live time; I want to wait until I get a certain amount of members and know which ones would be responsible for what doing the rituals.

For now, it is largely an Information Sharing coven; for Sabbats and Esbats, we all contribute things associated with what holiday we are celebrating at the time. We are a Christian Pagan coven, so we also celebrate Christian holidays.


What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?
A good witch is one who does majick for the good of all involved--all positive, and only practices "negative" majick as a valid self-defense. A bad witch tends to practice majick in a negative selfish and reckless manner.


Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?
I now spend an hour daily just concentrating on majick. I live majick throughout my daily life, but I feel it's also important to set aside a special time to focus ONLY on the Craft.


I have the triple goddess tattooed on my body. This symbol to me means where I’m at, where I’ve been and where I’m going. It also has the pentacle in the middle of the full moon. What symbols have the most significance to you and why?
I always wear my pentacle cross necklace, symbolizing my Christian Wiccan religious belief. Also on my necklace is my patron Saint Nicholas of Myra.
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Postby Twisted_Pixie » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:55 pm

How long have you been a witch?

Since i can remember, i was pretty much born a witch, but i started "practising" at about 12 (i'm now 27 this year)

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?

I'm not wiccan, but i knew witchcraft was for me when i read about it in a book and thought "that is exactly what i have always believed"... when i was little i would make medicines from the plants in my mothers garden, and i would make "potions" up... i remember watching a colony of ants marching past me when i was in the garden once and remember thinking when people die, they would come back as something else... this was before i even knew there was such a thing as reincarnation.


What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?

As i said, im not Wiccan so not entirely sure how to answer this



How long have you been practicing Wicca?

I've been practising WITCHCRAFT, not wicca since i was about 12


How has Wicca affected your life?

Lol maybe i should just rewrite all the "wicca" questions to just say "witchcraft" or "paganism" hahaha. Paganism has had the most amazing impact on my life, it has shown me the beauty in everything and the power within myself... eventhough i have always seen the beauty in nature, its helped me to see more and more everyday.


What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?


I wasnt around 50 years ago so i'm not sure i can comment on this one lol



Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?

In my tradition, each element has a Galdur (a call) and a Stadur (a posture)... so i always start with east because this is the direction of new beginnings, the sun rises in the east beginning its journey and as we cast circle in a sunwise direction, it makes sense to start in this direction. I do the posture for Air (east), i say something like "I am inspiration of air" or "I call to the air", and then i chant the Galdur three times whilst cutting the sigil for the element in the air infront of me with my Athame... then i will go to the North (fire for us in the southern hemisphere) and so on and so forth.


What does magic mean to you?


I hate this question because i can never word the meaning of magic... to me magic is manifestation, but its also just looking outside and seeing the wonder of nature... magic is not only manifesting but its also appreciating that which is already in manifestation.... i duno, tough question...


How does your family or community feel about your preference?


My friends are fine with it... they accept it and even ask me to teach them, but my family (apart from one of my brothers) just think i'm an idiot haha. My mother thinks i'm weird but she nurtures it all the same... she's always buying me witchy presents or asking me to do spells for her lol. My sister in law is Catholic so must think i'm evil deep down ahaha, but she still accepts me the way i am.




Are you in a coven?


Not at the moment, i was a few months ago but i much prefer solitary life... I always do my own thing on Sabbats and Esbats but once my baby is born and a old enough to know whats happening, i will be teaching her and including her. My fiance sometimes joins in, he's a pagan in training he says hehehe. I always make a huge feast for the sabbats and involve anyone who wishes to join.... and i usually also celebrate the sabbats and esbats with a local coven who hold rituals.



How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?

I think i explained this a little in the last question lol...



What activities can you explain that take place during worship?


chanting, postures, blessings, rune magic, it really depends on what the purpose of the ritual is... all my rituals that i write are pretty creative and unique depending on what it is i'm wanting to achieve



What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?

I think this is a bit of a silly term... much like "black" and "white" witches... i dont think anyone can be a particular colour... as i've explained before, you cannot know one side of witchcraft without respecting and understanding its complete opposite.... i dont really understand how someone can say they worship nature and LEARN FROM nature, but say that "bad" magic is evil etc... nature is both "light" and "dark"... mother nature can be so peaceful and nurturing one minute and violent and destructive the next... if we are to learn from nature we have to embrace the whole.... its called balance. I'm not saying we should all go out and go hard core, but learning about the other side of nature and understanding it helps.... for example, how can you truely know what it is to love, if there was no such thing as hate??


Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?

Wake up..... lol
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Postby Hexima » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:25 am

i been a witch for witch for a year

it just called to me and made sense to me that i should study the arts and it filled my heart with joy.

what it means to be a wicca to me the light within me.

i'v been a wicca 2 years.

the impact on my family and my boy both effect us with such warm and blinding light all around us.
:D Blessed Be :D
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Postby Radiance » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:37 pm

How long have you been a witch?

About 12 years.


How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?

It felt right to me, I've since dropped the label Wiccan from myself and prefer to be called Pagan as some of the Wiccan laws just don't ring true to me for example the rede.



What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?

Who doesn't like Magic? I started seeking as a teen as many of us did and that is the original thing that caught my interest.


How long have you been practicing Wicca?

I practiced Wicca for about 3 years and then grew beyond that label.


How has Wicca affected your life?

Paganism has made me more aware of others and the affect that I have on them, more responsible for my actions, more balanced in the way that I live my life and a great deal more joyful about the simpler things in life.

What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?

I've never met anyone who was a Witch 50 years ago, one of the assumptions that I can make is that we are a great deal less secretive as Witchcraft is more widely accepted now than it was 50 years ago, at least in the Western world it is.

Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?

This question is a little unclear but I'm going to assume you mean when performing a ritual. I usually have a representation of each element on my altar and after the circle is cast each element is called. Calling the element involves standing in the elements quarter, facing it's direction and visualizing the element (a strong wind for Air, a bonfire for Fire, waves for Water and a mountain or a forest with the scent of moist earth for Earth).


What does magic mean to you?

Magic means being in control of my own fate. Being able to take action on the spiritual plane to affect change within myself or within my life.


How does your family or community feel about your preference?

Some of my family thinks that I am eccentric but no one is outright against it. Even my husband's very Catholic mother is okay with our beliefs. My grandmother even wishes me a happy Full Moon sometimes and knows that we are always busy on the Full Moon here.


Are you in a coven?

A circle

How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?

My circle changes from year to year. New people join us and others move away, my husband and I have been practicing together for about 7 years the newest member of our circle has been working with us for about 7 months.

What activities can you explain that take place during worship?

Our usual ritual is as follows: We gather materials and set up our altar, then we consecrate our altar with the elements, purify the space with the elements, cast the circle, summon the elements, welcome the divine, have our ritual working (something different every time), have a speaking staff, thank the divine, dismiss the elements, close the circle and feast. We don't always follow this cycle of events but it is the norm for us.

What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?

I think that is a matter of perspective. What is the difference between a good person and a bad person?

Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?

I ground and center upon awakening. There are other things that I always do but not so much on a daily basis. I always water my house plants when the moon is in Cancer, I have a cleansing bath during the dark moon, go for walks just to commune with nature at least once a week, more often when it's possible and sing Pagan songs with my children often.


I have the triple goddess tattooed on my body. This symbol to me means where I’m at, where I’ve been and where I’m going. It also has the pentacle in the middle of the full moon. What symbols have the most significance to you and why?

The pentagram is too me. I have one tattooed on my left ankle. It represents balance of the elements and modern Paganism, most modern Pagans that I know use this symbol somewhere or at least are aware of it and it is used by many in the Pagan community.
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Postby Enchanted » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:25 pm

i want to thank you all so much for answering my questions. for me its been very interesting to hear how witchcraft/paganism/and wicca has affected everyones life, what i like the most is that everyones expericience with it has been different yet some how the same. ( i know a contradiction) its how it is used for the individual that is different yet the outcome of being truly happy seems to be the same. i have learned a lot with these questions and with my mom there to always answer a question when i needed. i feel so sure that i have found something tangible to belive in and i thank you all for helping me.
Enchanted
 

Postby Hunter » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:07 pm

How long have you been a witch? I’ve been a practicing shaman for four years. Wicca and shamanism have been part of my life since I was a small child, I just didn't have names for them.

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling? I started having more spiritual growth when I embraced the Goddess.



What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca? It’s a reflection of nature/creation.


How long have you been practicing Wicca? . I recently did a ritual of self dedication to wicca and the Goddess.


How has Wicca affected your life? It gives me a good point of reference.


What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago? There are a lot more and it’s a more open thing.



Could you explain how you invite in the Elements? Through casting a circle and journey work sometimes involving the tarot.


What does magic mean to you? There are different types of magic. Magic is participating with the creator in shaping a small aspect of the universe.



How does your family or community feel about your preference? My wife is ok now that she understands. I think my community would freak out big time if they knew.


Are you in a coven? No but I am looking.



How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?


What activities can you explain that take place during worship? Circles, elements.


What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch? Bad witches are much more fun.

Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail? I do the LBRP but not everyday
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Postby Purple_wind » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:25 pm

How long have you been a witch?
About 5 months.

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?
I had already been looking into it alot then my best friend told me some things about it. I tried to talk to Bast and she answered instantly. She's nice and I felt as if I was her daughter. =)


What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?
I thought it would be kool to talk to Bast and practice magick. My first spell was a eye color changing spell.<3

How long have you been practicing Wicca?
5 months but I've always been interested in it.


How has Wicca affected your life?
Wicca has enhanced my life alot. I don't have as many nerve problems now Bast has shown me that she's my mother. She's always looking over my shoulder keeping me safe and it makes me feel better. It also showed me who my true friends are because some of them screwed me over after they found out I went wiccan but that's alright because I'm better off without them =).

What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?
Today's witches are pretty much the same as 50 years ago, we're just accepted more openly. I think we are weaker because the moon is getting further and further away but that's why we pull our energy from other things =).


Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?
I don't really invite in the elements. I'm very connected to most things around me.

What does magick mean to you?
(you misspelled it -Magick-) Magick means a variety of things to me. It means relationships with the things around you. You become alot closer to people and things once you can feel thier energies. =)


How does your family or community feel about your preference?
My family thinks I'm crazy. The principle and nurse of my school think I'm insane but they're close minded jerks anyways. My friends think it's awsome and so does my next door neighbor. My art teacher tells off the people that make fun of me too ^_^.

Are you in a coven?
No but my best friend and I are going to create one soon. We will be co-leaders even though that's not normal. We wouldn't do it any other way =).


How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?
N/A

What activities can you explain that take place during worship?
Singing and talking to our gods or godesses.


What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?
A good witch doesn't harm others or go against their will. A bad witch goes against others wills and harm others. Being a good witch is alot better because we have good karma =D.

Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?
Meditation. I usually use a candles flame to draw energy from but sometime when I don't have the time to sit down I will draw the energy of the wind or the energy from the ground. I also draw energy from my drinks and food before I eat them. I get very creative =).
[/b]
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Postby Zak*walker » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:16 am

How long have you been a witch?
ive been a witch since about 2006 but only been seasrly practacing since 08

How did you decide that Wicca was your calling?
i dont really know ever since i can remember ive been interested in wizzards and witchs and magic and ever since then ive been drawn even more.


What intrigued you about the witch aspect of Wicca?
the unknown the part where your help yourself and overs to over come fear and fight back in all the wrong around at the min

How long have you been practicing Wicca?
since 2008


How has Wicca affected your life?
its helped me alot to open up and let me listen to the world

What are today's witches like compared to 50 years ago?
i think they are very much the same besides today alot of the items needed are easer to get and there isnt as much prosoction behind it


Could you explain how you invite in the Elements?
when am casting a O i use colour candles to repersent each element put them in the right facing direction and light each one in order saying a lil spell to each one

What does magic mean to you?
guidence and helpfullness


How does your family or community feel about your preference?
they are very fine with it they will surport me with wat i want

Are you in a coven?
no


How long have you been with this coven and how long ago did it form?


What activities can you explain that take place during worship?
energised area, good emotions, and good outcomes


What are the differences between a good witch and a bad witch?
i dont really think there is a GOOD witch and/or a BAD witch i think its just the way they practice the craft, and the rules they follow

Do you have a daily ritual that you do without fail?
i ground my self everymorning
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Zak*walker
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:55 am

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