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Them cards! They Vex Me!

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Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby HopefulChild » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:00 am

Tarot frustration...I has some.

I have a real issue with the Pages and Knights. In nearly everything I've read about the Rider Waite cards, the Pages and Knights are just super open ended. They can cover so much possible information that they really frustrate me.
I've gotten used to the concept "How you react to the card, is the root of the answer" and I try to keep my intuition turned up when one of those cards lands, but I also expand on possibilities and probabilities as soon as I see them...so ANY time a page or knight shows up, I get flustered.


This other thing is amusing, it shouldn't surprise anyone who uses tarot regularly but I found it very amusing just from a rational stand point.

I pulled a celtic cross spread for each of my 3 sons. Each time I shuffled, focused, split the deck, and drew cards and focused on the dynamic.

So 3 shuffles. 3 splits. Then I reshuffled the cards again.

Based on the simple interpretation of each reading for each boy I asked to be shown how I could help them the most. On this pull I drew 3 cards, [Center] Root of the issue needing the most help [left hand] what is in motion [right hand] the thing I need to understand or do...

For each boy, as I drew 3 cards, 2 of the cards were the same cards that had shown up in that boys reading, and one new card that gave me a direction for contemplation.

For tarot users..that sounds normal.. to be expected. I got the guidance I asked for and it all fit together.

From PURELY a mathematics and statistical probability stand point...that information is insane...unless you acknowledge and accept the concept that something was acting on the card order. Even if you want to be 100% rational and assert that I was the one affecting the order of the cards subconsciously as I shuffled them, it is still mind boggling to consider the levels of probability involved with the same cards coming up in a structured order based on the person I was thinking about from three previous card draws in sequential order.

Mathematically just pulling the card that you state you will pull runs into the realm of 100,000/1. Doing that twice from the same deck runs into 1,000,000/1 Doing it twice and shuffling the cards in between the attempt runs it up to 50,000,00 to one.
Doing it for 2 cards, for 3 people, after 3 shuffles and 3 random splits....I don't even know how to calculate that.
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby blue_moon » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:25 pm

Fascinating what happend in your celtic cross!
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby SnowCat » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:16 pm

The cards are trying to teach you not to get flustered.

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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby firebirdflys » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:26 am

That's an amazing math problem :shock:
Pages and Knights aren't always easy to read are they :? .. I sort of think of Knights as action men, and Pages as androgynous messangers. But yeah...Never really get a lot from them.
By the way...
I wonder if there is a slight nick or something on the card that may make it keep reappearing?
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby Xiao Rong » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:36 am

This has happened to me a lot too ... pulling the same cards over and over in successive readings. There was a phase in my life where I kept getting the 8 of Swords, until I finally internalized the lessons, and then it went away. I had a similar reaction ... "WOW! What are the statistical probabilities?" until I just decided to accept that something really is acting on the cards!

As for Pages and Knights, I typically think of them as child and adolescent energies, respectively. Pages -- the beginnings of the energy of that suit, undeveloped but full of potential, but could really blossom if nurtured. Like when you meet a child who has a lot of creative energy and you know that with the right environment, she could be a truly remarkable artist as an adult.

Knights are the teenage years, and when teenagers do anything they have to do it full tilt (har, har), with a lot of passion and raw enthusiasm but not necessarily tempered by time or experience. So the energy of Knight cards is ... purer but unbalanced, more prone to the weaknesses of the suit. Very "my way or the highway". It reminds me of how some young people find religion and then it's not enough to simply believe it, but they feel like they need to make sure YOU know about it too and you are WRONG to believe anything else! (I've seen it in teenage Christians, teenage atheists, and some teenage witches!).
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby Ivy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:40 pm

Did you re-order the cards between each reading? If you did then that would be mind boggling mathematically but giving you a clear sign from the Tarot! Being sons of yours it is very probably that they would be given similar advice :)
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby HopefulChild » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:52 am

@Blue_Moon: The readings were "state of the now" readings. That is what I've fallen on reading the most. I've stopped trying to get hard answers or any significant future information. Instead I just want to see the state of things as a whole. The readings for each boy were pretty much what we are already doing, guidance wise so it was an affirmation that I'm on track with what is happening in their life.

@Izy: Yes, between each drawing of cards for each person I shuffled. I do a casino shuffle and then a lot shuffle, then I split the deck while focusing on the "subject" and then draw a card and stop. I've only been using tarot for a few months so sometimes I stop after each card to look it up, or I stop after each card just to acknowledge it and listen to my gut.

@Xiao Rong. The child and teenager influence of the suit is what all three of the sources I use for learning tarot say about those cards. For me that information just makes it really difficult to interpret because I see little kids as honest and driven purely by want, while teenagers are still driven purely by want, but by that age they have learned to manipulate situations and people, so it always stresses me out thinking about the extremes in context that deception and duplicity can be part of it. It gives me too broad a brush to paint negative context I guess is what I'm saying. And controlling my compulsion to imagine terrible scenarios fully into a terrible conclusion is something I struggle with anyway. I'm a worrier!

@firebird: I currently use 2 decks interchangeably. A new Radiant Waite and a used Pocket edition Waite that is rather old and bent. It's like someone put the deck in a place where it stayed bent in the middle for years, so each time I go to use it I have to "anti-bend" the deck and then within a day of not bending them they curve up again lol. The used set is becoming my favorite because right after I bought it my wife cleansed them in her cleansing ritual and every time I shuffle them all I smell is Sage and Sandalwood and it's like this instant calming trigger in my brain. The funny part is that when I do a cleansing on something it's like it goes blank. The same smell never hangs on to it and it becomes very inert, but I can go through the house and tell you everything my wife has done a cleansing to because they still smell like Sage and they always seem warm to me. Something else that is kind of odd is that my wife doesn't like to use the deck she cleansed because it smells like Sage and Sandalwood and the smell of Sage makes her nauseous.


Anybody ever heard of that? A witch who gets nauseous from the smell of Sage? lol.

@snowcat: If the cards could succeed in teaching me not to get flustered then that would be a massive leap forward for my life.
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby Ivy » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:51 am

I meant re-order as in place back in order through the Majors then Ace to ten of the minors.

And... there are many different Sages, I prefer Sweet White Sage from California, but I have several kinds and not all smell that great lol!
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby HopefulChild » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:13 am

I have never ordered a deck.

We still have an ongoing debate as the reversed cards between us. I line the cards up every time, and she is ok letting them turn so that they can be reversed when dealt.

I'm getting used to the idea of just ignoring the reverse cards but my wife thinks that is insulting to ignore reversed cards or to disallow them from happening.

We are still pretty new to it. So I'll keep at it.
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Re: Them cards! They Vex Me!

Postby Wimsaur » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:47 am

Here is a link to a YouTube video I did that features the court cards in particular.

https://youtu.be/nR5Lq_nySNY

I generally use the Thoth deck for their expanded Qabalistic symbolism. It's important to remember that the Rider Waite deck is also a Qabalistic deck, created by Golden Dawn big cheese A. E. Waite. That said, the cards can be best understood in context with the Qabalistic Tree of Life.

This video is arranged per the astrological wheel and the court cards relationship to the same.

In both decks, Thoth and R.W., the Knights represent Fire because they ride a horse- they are active male. The Queens are water. The King of R.W. is equivalent to the Prince of Thoth. They are air, passive masculine as they are both seated. The effeminate page of R.W., is the princess of Thoth. So changed to balance the genders.

I hope this video helps.

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