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The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Talk, spells, rituals, and questions about the four elements.

The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Ashtus » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:16 pm

Well, I am new to the site, but not so new to the practice. I have spent a while browsing the forums and every now and then i would see this topic come up in passing. Here is my firm belief. There is in fact a fifth element. This is mostly a theological view as it can be argued viciously in the world of science. The fifth element in my opinion is blood. So in total we have Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Blood. Why blood, some would ask. Maybe to add to the drama of the ritual? Not at all. Also, my opinion was not infuenced at all by the media and after hearing my explanation that should be perfectly clear. So where to start? Earth, Water, Fire, Air. The four most widely accpted elements, and an essential part in most, if not all rituals, correct? Well we have esstablished the fact that nature plays a part, correct? Well what else is needed for a ritual to work? Ah yes, a person. And the driving force in that person? Blood. Yes i understand where this logic takes us. The same could be said about a heart, or a liver, and so forth. But something strikes you when the word blood is said, does it not? And no one here can argue that adding even a small amount of your own blood to a ritual working adds power. The way i see it Earth does not mean the globe in general, it does not mean the name of the planet, it means the dirt, the grass, the trees. As for the others, their name is what they are. Put them together and they are the driving force in what makes this planet continue, therefore they hold great power. Well, Blood is what flows through our veins just as water flows through the earth. Blood burns in our veins just as fire burns at the center of this planet. Blood is one of our biggest needs to survive just as the planet needs what is earth (trees, dirt, grass.) Finally, Blood is invisible to us unless we make it show, as is the same with Air or Wind, both areinvisible, but we know boh to exist and play a huge part in our lives. In addition to all this. Think about ever ritual you ever worked was blood present? Yes it was,maybe it was not used as part of the ritual like the other elements, but it was there, it was your driving force that enabled you to work the ritual. For this and other reasons i will not jump into it is my firm and undying belief that Blood is the fifth element.

P.S. I apologize for any spelling mistakes, my grammer is not usually this bad but i felt the need to get everything out while it was fresh in my mind.
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby JuniperBerry » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:58 pm

The fifth element is spirit. I've never heard that it was any great mystery.
The Gods we worship write their names on our faces; be sure of that. A person will worship something, have no doubt about that. We may think our tribute is paid in secret in the dark recesses of our hearts, but it will out. That which dominates our imaginations and our thoughts will determine our lives, and our character. Therefore, it behooves us to be careful what we worship, for what we are worshipping we are becoming.

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As believers in the folk-religion we are studying, we seek after mysteries that expand the scope of our gods and our understanding of them, not reductionist theories that reduce them to manageable and socially productive "functions".

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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Ashtus » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:23 pm

Maybe to some, but like the other elements blood can be physically manifested in a ritual. It can be worked with like water, salt, candles, incense. To each their own though. heh
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Greek_Male_Witch » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:44 am

Well I knew that we have 4 elements, Earth,Air,Fire and Water and also Spirit, which is NOT an element, the mystery about it is that nobody knows where to put it, its not Air, Its not Fire or anything else. Based on the chinese myth though the fifth element is Metal, I mean they also have spirit, but they don't count it as element. anyway who knows?


But Metal could also be an element since its not man made, its natural. unless we count it under Earth's category!
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Traumwandlerin » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:31 am

But the chinese have wood to as element, they have a total different system ;)

The elemts are just not as elemental as some people think they are ^^

So go with blood if you like, I would have called this rather lifeforce which can manifests itself in blood. Like a pentacle for whatever reason symbolises the earth.
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Greek_Male_Witch » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:09 pm

I find chinese system complicated, so I prefer the 4 elements and thats it! :D
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Traumwandlerin » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:04 pm

I've got used to it. But I'm considering changing system to something that fits me better. Or even inventing a new system that fits for me.
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Fayneixx » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:43 am

Spirit, it defines us all, yet we have no way to put a definition on it. What is it? Why is it? Some things we'll just never know blue_dozey
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Fionn The Mutt » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:49 pm

I don't see there really being a "fifth element" as such, although this viewpoint makes me unpopular among Pagans in general. The concept that I work with is that spirit is not an element, but something much more simple. Just as the atoms make up the scientific elements based on how many molecules there are, I see spirit doing the same for the philosophical four elements of contemporary Paganism.

The way I understand it is thus:
Spirit first manifested in the universe as Fire, but since nothing in the universe can exist without an opposite, water was formed also. When these two were combined, there was vapour(air) which by existing created earth.

This isn't meant to be a literal understanding, but then again, I don't think that a large amount of the ideas based around the modern Pagan elements are meant to be taken literally either.
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Cyphir » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:18 pm

I was reading the Ender's Saga books by Orson Scott Card recently and they touched on the fifth element, spirit. It was defined as soul and given the name aiúa. The aiúa is the smallest particle in the universe in this book. Everything is made up of them with there being a single dominant one. I have adopted this point. To me, it is the physical manifestation of my will and soul.
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Fayneixx » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:15 am

Like Ender's Game and Such? I don't remember reading that!
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby black dove » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:26 am

The way I see it, Spirit isn't exactly an actual element. Its the thing that connects all 4 elements together. In other words, all the elements contain all or one trait of spirit. Honestly,I haven't put THAT much thought into it to pinpoint the traits of spirit in each, but Fire could be the spark of life and passion; Water could be harmony and tranquility; Earth could be foundation and order; and air could be thought and that which is unseen. All of these things contribute to the "Element" of spirit.

To sum things up I believe that spirit would be the center of a compass or the center of the circle you cast.
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Cyphir » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:30 pm

Fayneixx wrote:Like Ender's Game and Such? I don't remember reading that!


The concept appears in the last two books. I can see how some believe it not to be an element at all, but to me it makes sense. Hence the many degrees of beliefs
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby JBRaven » Sun May 01, 2011 7:24 am

I was talking to a friend of mine and we started talking about the 5th element. She believes that the 5th element is vibration. It is said that everything in existence has its own frequency, thus making it a must in all life. To do a spell, is to speak or to push energy from the mind. All of this being vibrations of our energy.

I offer this as second hand information and see what you all think about it.
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Re: The Mysterious Fifth Element.

Postby Victoria Mnemosyne » Wed May 04, 2011 1:47 pm

When I cast my circle, I call on Spirit as I do the other elements. Except I do not consider it to be an element itself. Perhaps the wording helps explain my view:
Spirit, within me, without me
Part of that which runs through All
To channel my power into my craft, I invoke thee
Blessed be my work within this sacred place
'
So I look at spirit as a portion of the "All", the "All Spirit", "Universal Energy", what have you. It is an unseen force that is not related to matter or a physical manifestation. I wish I could be a little more specific, but I just know it when I feel it. People, places, all have a distinct energy. Somewhere between a "vibe" and a "current". Spellwork is channeling that energy.

I'm not explaining this well :oops:
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