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The boyfriend :|

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The boyfriend :|

Postby Alyssia » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:54 am

Hey guys, I'm new here!

I'm 18, and just got into Wicca.
I haven't done my dedication yet (thinking of doing it on the Hare Moon), I'm still studying profusely on "the Wiccan way" :]

I thought I'd share some troubles of my own on here... since that's what this part of the Forum is for...

I have a boyfriend who I share absolutely everything with...
I told him about my interest in Wicca.
And he's a Catholic. Well, he's not a practising Catholic, but still.
He says that it's a sin, and that I'm going through a phase, and that I'll be going to hell, etc.
No matter what I tell him about what Wicca represents, The Three Fold Law and Wiccan Rede, he won't bloody listen to me, and just laughs in my face about it all!

Telling my parents and have them treat me like that (even though they do not) is nothing compared to being treated this way by the one person you love more than anything else.

Does anyone have any advice for me??

Blessed be.

xx
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Postby Witch13 » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:00 pm

Honey,
People think that doing magic is something evil, and that we make contracts with the devil and stuff :S
if you think about it every single person has blown a candle out on their birthday making a wish MAGIC
And anyhow you are who you are and your choises are yours and yours alone. if he doesnt want to believe in what you believe in thats ok but its a totally different think to judge you and say bad things about it.
Are you sure that someone that someone like that is right for you?
I had a huge argument with 2 friends of mine because they made fun of my religion and of magic. I no longer talk with them because i saw that they werent really my friends.
i hope i have helped you.
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Postby Elisa » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:07 pm

Firstly, tell him there's a proper way to attempt to convert you and other pagans, and he's going about it all wrong.:wink:

Print out the following article, give it to him, and tell him that this is the proper way to share the gospel with pagans: How to Share the Gospel with Pagans hehe

Here are some other articles/websites on this site that address Religious Tolerance.

Of course, you could also just give him a hug and tell him how happy you are that you guys are already on the same page because most of Christianity as it's practiced today generally constitutes a pagan religion, especially Catholicism. Dude. Catholicism alone stands as one of the most seamless, effective and ultimately impressive (to me, at least) examples of "syncretism" in the history of humans. It once served as the PR/marketing arm of European governments before they took over a country: first send in Catholic missionaries to "befriend" the natives and let them know that if they didn't denounce their beliefs, language, dress, and entire way of life, that they would burn eternally in hell ....then send in the troops! It worked every time (like in Mars Attacks, where the Martians repeatedly said, "Don't run. We come in peace. We won't shoot you," and then vaporize every human in sight). It became the blueprint for all of subsequent Christian-esque offshoots it would later beget.

The secret to its success was giving Christian names and explanations to existing pagan practices. So next time he says your pagan practices are a sin, hehehe, suggest that he look in the mirror if he'd like to see yet another "sinning pagan." (lol!!) He may say something to the tune of, "that book-learnin' there is how the devil misleads you," when you present him your research, but try to share the facts with him anyway. Let's take a few examples:

Christmas = ancient fertility celebration (taken from Christmas' Pagan Origins by Kelly Wittmann):

No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.

In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.

Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means “wheel,” the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.

The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.

In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ’s birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.

Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: “Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ.”

The controversy continues even today in some fundamentalist sects.


or

Easter = Goddess worship (taken from The True Origin of Easter by David Pack . This well-researched, but rather lengthy article was written by a "shocked" Christian who researched the true origins of all "Christian" holidays, and upon stumbling on the truth, wrote it in hopes of "urging" his colleagues not to celebrate them ...he probably gave up later and fully embraced his pagan-hood, hahahaha ...that, or had a nervous breakdown, or both):

Does the following sound familiar?—Spring is in the air! Flowers and bunnies decorate the home. Father helps the children paint beautiful designs on eggs dyed in various colors. These eggs, which will later be hidden and searched for, are placed into lovely, seasonal baskets. The wonderful aroma of the hot cross buns mother is baking in the oven waft through the house. Forty days of abstaining from special foods will finally end the next day. The whole family picks out their Sunday best to wear to the next morning’s sunrise worship service to celebrate the savior’s resurrection and the renewal of life. Everyone looks forward to a succulent ham with all the trimmings. It will be a thrilling day. After all, it is one of the most important religious holidays of the year.

Easter, right? No! This is a description of an ancient Babylonian family—2,000 years before Christ—honoring the resurrection of their god, Tammuz, who was brought back from the underworld by his mother/wife, Ishtar (after whom the festival was named). As Ishtar was actually pronounced “Easter” in most Semitic dialects, it could be said that the event portrayed here is, in a sense, Easter. Of course, the occasion could easily have been a Phrygian family honoring Attis and Cybele, or perhaps a Phoenician family worshipping Adonis and Astarte. Also fitting the description well would be a heretic Israelite family honoring the Canaanite Baal and Ashtoreth. Or this depiction could just as easily represent any number of other immoral, pagan fertility celebrations of death and resurrection—including the modern Easter celebration as it has come to us through the Anglo-Saxon fertility rites of the goddess Eostre or Ostara. These are all the same festivals, separated only by time and culture.

If Easter is not found in the Bible, then where did it come from? The vast majority of ecclesiastical and secular historians agree that the name of Easter and the traditions surrounding it are deeply rooted in pagan religion.

Now notice the following powerful quotes that demonstrate more about the true origin of how the modern Easter celebration got its name:

“Since Bede the Venerable (De ratione temporum 1:5) the origin of the term for the feast of Christ’s Resurrection has been popularly considered to be from the Anglo-Saxon Eastre, a goddess of spring…the Old High German plural for dawn, eostarun; whence has come the German Ostern, and our English Easter” (The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 5, p. 6).

“The fact that vernal festivals were general among pagan peoples no doubt had much to do with the form assumed by the Eastern festival in the Christian churches. The English term Easter is of pagan origin” (Albert Henry Newman, D.D., LL.D., A Manual of Church History, p. 299).

“On this greatest of Christian festivals, several survivals occur of ancient heathen ceremonies. To begin with, the name itself is not Christian but pagan. Ostara was the Anglo-Saxon Goddess of Spring” (Ethel L. Urlin, Festival, Holy Days, and Saints Days, p. 73).

“Easter—the name Easter comes to us from Ostera or Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, for whom a spring festival was held annually, as it is from this pagan festival that some of our Easter customs have come” (Hazeltine, p. 53).

“In Babylonia…the goddess of spring was called Ishtar. She was identified with the planet Venus, which, because…[it] rises before the Sun…or sets after it…appears to love the light [this means Venus loves the sun-god]…In Phoenecia, she became Astarte; in Greece, Eostre [related to the Greek word Eos: “dawn”], and in Germany, Ostara [this comes from the German word Ost: “east,” which is the direction of dawn]” (Englehart, p. 4).


and there's

Halloween= Samhain, or Sowen, celebrating the dead (taken from The Real Story of Halloween)

...you get the picture.




Hopefully you guys could come to a happy understanding. But you have to keep the possibility in the back of your mind that this may not get resolved. Like witch13 said, if he can't accept you as you are, then it was never that strong as you have it in your mind as being. It's not your fault; it's hard to find that kind of connection with anyone, about anything.

Change is the default setting of life. Everyone changes, along with their spiritual beliefs. You're evolving and further defining your spirituality ...what serves you, what no longer does, etc. The reality is that folks around you, even those that love you, may not evolve down the same path upon which you're evolving (and vice versa). Hopefully you don't make the "if I'm submissive and repress my true desires and beliefs he'll love and accept me" mistake. Women do this quite a bit, but what happens later down the line is that the shadow self, the inner you, the inner Kali-ma that all women have, will retaliate against that self-imposed repression ...and it won't be pretty. Best to be yourself now, and surround yourself with a support system of people who respect that self, regardless what spiritual path you happen to embrace.

About Kali:
Kali's dwelling place, the cremation ground denotes a place where the five elements (Sanskrit: pancha mahabhuta) are dissolved. Kali dwells where dissolution takes place. In terms of devotion and worship, this denotes the dissolving of attachments, anger, lust, and other binding emotions, feelings, and ideas. The heart of the devotee is where this burning takes place, and it is in the heart that Kali dwells. The devotee makes her image in his heart and under her influence burns away all limitations and ignorance in the cremation fires. This inner cremation fire in the heart is the fire of knowledge, (Sanskrit: gyanagni), which Kali bestows.



.
In Love and Gratitude,
Elisa

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see."
Awaken now, or be rudely awakened later. Either way, you WILL wake up.
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Postby Alyssia » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:58 pm

That actually makes perfect sense, Witch13... I have a few friends that respect my views and my chosen path, but I can't tell them about what my boyfriend thinks, because they all hate him already!!

And Elisa, that was a massive reply! hehehe, but such a good read.
I might try giving him the research first (even though I think he wouldn't accept it).
And then, tell him about Christmas, Easter and Samhain :) He might be in for a shock, as I was, but he'll be determined to prove me wrong and jump on Google as soon as he can.
And voila! I'll have my victory! :D

Being with him has made me repress my feelings and what I've really wanted to do for a very long time. (I can't even talk to guy-friends, etc) And the biggest reason why I don't just be rid of him, is because of my fear of being alone.
But now that I have found my path, I finally feel like I belong somewhere, and that Wicca is actually someone I have beside me all the way.
I don't know what it is yet, but it just makes me feel loved and happy.

Thank you so much for your time in gathering all this information for me, Elisa. I'd never think of it by myself :)

And thank you Witch13, you've really given me something to think about.

xx
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.

Postby Elisa » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:33 pm

...Elisa, that was a massive reply! hehehe

...lol! Oh, I didn't type most of that, it was essentially a cut 'n' paste job. The topic is something that passes through my mind a lot this time of year, so I'm glad I got a chance to finally get that little schpiel off my chest... thank you for posting the question. :D

Have fun on the message board!....
In Love and Gratitude,
Elisa

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see."
Awaken now, or be rudely awakened later. Either way, you WILL wake up.
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Postby windkeeper » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:24 pm

first of all I'm sorry that he is treating you like that. That is no way to treat someone you care about. My husband is Agnostic but has always been very supportive of my beliefs. We have had numerous long discussions about religion and he has even agreed with aspects of my beliefs. He partakes in my celebrations and has even asked me to do a spell for him. I feel very blessed.

anyway, my advice to you would be to sit down and talk to him calmly. Explain how he is making you feel. Let him know that you don't (I hope) talk negatively about his religion and you expect the same level of respect to be shown towards you. You will have to understand that being Catholic especially he might not agree with what you're doing. It may even make him uncomfortable and thats fine as long as he doesn't disrespect you. If he continues to do so I'd strongly recommend doing some soul searching and asking yourself if you can continue to spend time with someone who isn't treating you the way you deserve.

Also, if you honestly feel this is the path for you don't let anyone (boyfriend, parents, friends) tell you that you are wrong or make you change your mind. You do not have to apologize for walking a different path. Remember that paganism was around long before christianity :D

Good luck. I really hope things work out for you.
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Postby Twisted_Pixie » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:57 am

Im sorry you are going through this hunni... it sucks when people just dont understand... especially when it is the people who should understand...

I know this is going to sound harsh but can you really see yourself with someone who makes you repress your feelings, not lets you do what you want to do etc etc....

We all go through the fear of being alone, but hun think outside the square, you are beautiful, fun, easy to talk to and above all ONLY 18!!! You will NOT be alone... If there is a need within you that forces you to be with someone even though youre not 100% happy just because you are afraid of being alone, then this is something you need to work out. Do some spells and rituals on yourself to build up your confidence and self love... do some work on yourself to release those fears, because eventhough i'm sure almost everyone goes through it... it doesnt make it healthy. Fears can be overcome, and really they should be to allow us to grow as spiritual beings... if that makes sense.

Anyway my point here is, youre only 18, you have plenty of time for "not being alone" and trust me when i say you will NOT be alone, you're awesome... but there is nothing wrong with being alone to find yourself and find someone who will accept you and nurture you unconditionally... because to me that is what TRUE love is.

Anyway i'm going to climb off my soap box now, but i hope you take into account what everyone is saying here.

Blessed be
Pix
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Postby Buttercup » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:57 pm

This post is a bit old so I hope you've found a way to solve this problem in your life honey,but I saw what's bothering you and decided to give my piece of advice as well,and who knows,maybe it will actually help.When I have this kind of problems (trying to explain something to someone about my beliefs or my feeling and him not getting it no matter what) I usually try some visualisation before attempting to talk to this person about it again.I imagine that I am in a very beautiful and calm place somewhere in nature,and I breathe deeply while light surrounds me (whatever colour comes to my mind at the time) till I glow with this light brightly.Then I imagine the person I have the problem with is approaching me slowly,and as he approaches me he slowly starts to glow with this light too and when he gets near me he glows brilliantly with this light,just like I do.In this state of higher awareness we can talk without the usual preoccupied thoughts that usually fills our minds.So I tell this person whatever I would tell him in real life,only this time he doesn't react badly.Sometimes he says nothing,sometimes he might talk to me to and explain why he reacts like that.
Either way,I have noticed that this is extremely successful in having an actual honest conversation with anyone in your life who wasn't actually open to discussing something with you.I works with my parents and my teachers perfectly for years,as well as my friends.
Once again I hope things worked out pretty well for you,but I thought I'd post this method since it's helped me a lot for more than 8 years.
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Postby BeautifulWitch » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:57 pm

Hunnie, If he can't understand you. Or if he won't listen, you have two ways to go.

A) Dump his butt. He doesn't listen and refuses to listen. Then, he very well won't get it though.

B) MAKE HIM LISTEN. Tie him up. Lol, i'm joking please don't. Okay Mate, if he's not that hard headed then try to explain. Bring him to circles, get him books. Show him what we're all about...


GIRL POWER!!!!! :P
!>Rosemate<!
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Postby akumaxkami » Mon May 17, 2010 12:07 pm

I kind of feel your pain here. My boyfriend is a hardcore atheist and the most annoying skeptic I've ever met. So I can't share any of my beliefs or experiences with him - he'll laugh at me.

You do have a couple of options though:

~Be persistent and win him over with love and kindess (some gentle explanations about exactly what Wiccans believe can't hurt either)

~Dump him. If he treats your religious beliefs like dirt, you don't have to take that kind of abuse.

~Give it up and leave the situation alone. Not everyone sees eye to eye on religion and spirituality. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree and not bring it up around each other.
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