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Muslim-Wiccan?! Can this happen?

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Muslim-Wiccan?! Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Thu May 23, 2013 4:00 am

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Hello Kassandra,

Good morning from sunny Rhodes :) i followed your advise, i hope you can enlighten me a little coz im very confused.

id better explain my situation first and my upbringing. my family is Muslim but i was born and raised in Greece. my parents are not fanatic Muslims or anything and i was very confident going to the church or to the mosque when i was little. i didn't care about the religion itself i jusT felt some kind of serenity lighting a candle and pray my own way.

then we moved to turkey when i was 13. it was so very difficult for me i was actually pissed off with everything that had to do with turkey back at the time. when i was in high school i was a rebellious atheist blue_dozey and my psychic abilities were kicking in more and more... dreaming of love ones deaths or even people i barely knew,and mostly earthquakes!!even sensing them incubus (or sleep paralysis as the doctors say) i suffered a lot of it!! OBE experiences,frequent deja vu`s and so many other things!!!

i was very exhausted and i was searching for something that would help me defeat my fears. my mom helped me a lot and was reciting Quran and she gave me soem herbs to put under my pillow for protection etc. one night the incubus trow me off my bed but still i couldnt move or scream and i started reciting a prayer from the Quran. i had no idea what was it and asked my mom the other day, she was shocked coz i didnt know how to pray in Arabic or anything. at that time i thought i finally found my path, everything started to go back to `normal` but i was never fully satisfied with this religion. i was still believing in spirituality and there are many other things i dont quite like/accept in muslims. i truly cant remember clearly how i find wicca....but its growing on me more and more everyday :) i hope now you have an idea of my past.

so lets get to the point!! 3 days ago i saw in my dream an incubus telling me that the spells of withcraft are not enough to protect me and i was deliberately yelling at him and telling him off that i can keep the good thing i like from muslumanity and be a wiccan!! i was praying in arabic and in another ancient-like language and felt so powerfull that the incubus just vanished....

id like to know what you think of my dream...ill be bothering you a lot from now on with my many colorfoul dreams :) sorry for my very long story and forgive any mistakes with my english.

Love & Light smileylove



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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby Kassandra » Thu May 23, 2013 1:01 pm

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Hi Hayal, thanks for your question, and you can bother me anytime, lol. Your English is fine, by the way, so don't sweat it.


PRE-ISLAMIC WITCH CRAFT TRADITIONS

What an intriguing background you have, girl. There is a very old, deep tradition of magic in the Arabic world (that is, I should say the "pre-Islamic" world to be more precise, traditions that existed waaaay before Muhammed was ever born, before there ever was "Islam"). This magical path is very sophisticated in the understanding of entities such as the jinn, as well as how to work with the angels (again, though people associate angels with Christianity, human interaction with angels began waaaay before Jesus and Christianity came around; angels are not "Christian"). On a related note, see my article about the jinn I posted today here: Gouls and Genies: Their Origin.

Yes, it gets very deep. Arabic scholars have written treatises and preserved the records of the practices of pre-Islamic magicians. Many of their practices came directly from Mesopotamia, Chaldea, Sumeria, etc. So, there is a long tradition of spell work, astrology, advanced sorcery, and other occult practices. Aspects of modern Hermetic traditions in Western culture are based on the work of founders who themselves studied these practices, so a lot of their "high magic" practices and rituals have much in common with these ancient pre-Islamic traditions (I think EUTM member, Dark Moon, is much more conversant on such topics than I am).

It's funny we're on this subject because recently I was studying the Yazidi people of Northern Iraq. They speak Kurdish and have Kurdish cultural practices, yet their spiritual belief system is different from those around them. It is highly syncretic, and blends Sufism, aspects of paganism, as well as aspects of Islam and Christianity. Most notably, they believe that 7 powerful angels run the world, the chief of which is Tawuse Malek. So the Yazidi get into a lot of angel magic. It's very interesting to study.

Image
"Three kings from the East" visiting the birth of Jesus? No...yet another mistranslation
and "little white lie" Christian leaders have been telling their followers. The truth is,
the three "magi" were Middle Eastern, high-ranking, occult practitioners specializing
in magic, astrology and divination, and parlaying the metaphysical with the physical scien-
ces, such as astronomy (a clue was that they were tracking a star to get to Bethlehem).

Theologian John Sanidopolous notes:


The word Magi comes from the Greek word magoi, meaning ‘astrologer’ or ‘magician’.
By the time of the birth of Christ, the Magi were an already well-established and ancient
upper class of people from the Persian Empire in today’s northern Iran. The Magi were
pagan priests, specializing in astrology and the interpretation of dreams. Skilled in philo-
sophy, medicine and natural science, they became the scholars of Persian society...
...Although they were not ‘kings’ as perceived by western legends, the Magi were regar-
ded as men of aristocratic rank even in Jerusalem, which is made apparent by their easy
access to King Herod’s court.



Quote above, source: johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/12/magi-and-star-orthodox-understanding.html
Photo source: ucanews.com/news/more-than-three-wise-men-new-findings-pose-some-questions/38571






THE WICCAN PATH ...AND THEN SOME

All in all, I could see why Wicca might attract you. You have psychic abilities, and there's no place to express them in Islam, as is the case with Christianity (nor with Judaism --not coincidentally, all three being Abrahamic religions). Wicca gives plenty of room for that. Yet, there are aspects of orthodox religions that people find pleasant and deeply spiritual, so they, like you, don't want to throw those beliefs out with the bathwater. While I was not raised Catholic, I like the candle work they do, and the sense of ritual their practices have. And with Islam, I like the idea of the Ramadan tradition, to do without food for a month (during the daytime hours), reminding oneself there's more to life than material things, that dedicating oneself to God is the most important thing. And stopping to pray 5 times a day is beautiful too --I think we'd all do well to just stop and breathe several times through the course of any day.

So, I could see why you would want to keep different aspects of different traditions going in your life. This is called, "syncretism," or more commonly, "ecclecticism." Some embrace such an approach, some are violently opposed to it, some find middle ground with it.

Anyway, I say all this to say that though you were attracted to Wicca initially, you might investigate some of the witch craft traditions of the pre-Islamic world, as well, as I mentioned above. You might find some things resonating there. Remember, Wicca is a fairly new religion ("neo-pagan") that incorporates witch craft; it is not witch craft itself (some people mistake it as such, and you will see arguments on this message board about policies such as "The Law of Three" applying to all witch craft everywhere, which is not true). There are many, many types of witch craft having nothing whatsoever to do with Wicca.

And like I said, the witch craft traditions from the Middle East, and even in Greece, go way, waaay back. Whereas, neo-pagan Wicca was founded in the 1950s, by an Englishman, Gerald Gardner. But he and his posse did a good job giving it an "ancient" feel, however, doing such things as incorporating archaic English verbiage like "ye," "olde," "thou," etc., into Wiccan writings, and borrowing the phrase "so mote it be" from the Freemasons and Rosicrucians, who've been using it for centuries in their rites (it's not pagan, and is, in fact, closer to being like a Christian "Amen," if anything). Since moderating for this board I've been surprised how many people embrace Wicca yet never bother to look into the origins of its practices, and/or have never even heard of Gerald Gardner before, its founder.

In fact, from the beginning Garder's whole gig was controversial. For instance, his public "outing" of witch craft by founding Wicca was severely criticized, since the tradition for ages has been that coven activities were private, never open to the public. Others had problems with Gardner's penchant for young girls, his outspoken disdain for homosexuals, and his subjugation of female priestesses, who he claimed should be named and initiated by male priests only ...let's just say Gardner may not have made a lot of friends during his Earth Walk.

Source of article above: angelfire.com/wi2/thetruthaboutwicca/geraldgardner.html


Image
Gardner, while creating Wicca, borrowed heav-
ily and unapologetically from a wide variety of sour-
ces, such as ancient Egyptian occultism, Freema-
son practices, the writings of Crowley and others,
and whatever else struck his fancy. It's logical to
consider Wicca but another "syncretic" religion;
"pure" or "real" Wicca does not exist. As the
saying goes, "It's what you make of it," quite lit-
erally.

So, back to your question: can a "Muslim Wiccan"
happen? ...I don't see why not, nor is a Christian
Wiccan
impossible in my opinion, nor a Shinto
Wiccan
, nor any of the other self-descriptions I've
seen people write here at EUTM. Who's place is it
to judge them/you? Not mine.






KEEP ON KEEPING ON

As regards your dream, whatever you're doing, keep it up. I think it's awesome that you stood up to the whatever-it-was, and you had the presence of mind, and firm belief in yourself to hold your ground and not be afraid of it. It takes a grounded person to do that, so whatever you're doing in your daily life to keep you so grounded, keep doing it. If taking a synchretic approach to spirituality is your way, then I'd say let it continue to be your way, and ignore what anyone else has to say about it. Politely let them know they can all kiss your patootie, hahaha.

Of course, I don't need to remind you to be careful. I don't know how tolerant to witch craft they are in the Greek or Turkish Muslim communities, but I'm thinkin' "not very." I don't need to tell members of this board about the Christian extremists in the United States, since many of them (including the board's owner, Starwitch) live where we here lovingly refer to as "The Bible Belt." I'm sure they probably face many of the same dangers here in a (so-called) Christian country, as any witch living in a Muslim country. Christians can sometimes be violent terrorists when they want to be ..."in the name of Jesus," of course, lol.

It's nice too that your Mom is helpful and understanding, and trying to work through all this with you. Yay Mom! I love that she gave you herbs to help you sleep (we all seem to big on plants at the Everything Under the Moon message board, hehe). I would be happy to hear about your dreams, so feel free to post anytime. Also, we have on this board a "Dream Journal" forum, and you could keep a record of your dreams there if you'd like. And just curious --what was the other language besides Arabic, the "ancient-like" one, in which you were praying?

Image
ويقول مرحبا لصديقي قليلا، والكابوس!
(that's supposed to say, "Say hello to my little friend!" but I used Google Translate, so it's probably wrong, lol)
Photo source: popmatters.com/feature/138505-heroic-humanism-and-humanistic-heroism-in/

I mentioned sorcery above. Honestly, my hunch is that you may have natural-born sorcerer tendencies,
from the way you stood up to that thing, and that way you went into that language, yet don't know what it
is in your conscious mind. I'm also getting that some in your family line had and have this ability, and it may
have skipped a generation, but you've inherited it too. Just a weird hunch, that's all. I'm not sure what you
would actually do with such abilities though, how to apply them to daily life, etc. Maybe you could be the
Islamic-Wiccan Buffy the Vampire Slayer, lol. I' don't know.




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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Thu May 23, 2013 2:32 pm

Wow Kassandra!!! Im so very glad i met u. I felt a very strong energy when i was reading ur answer. It felt like cold fresh water pouring to my heart :) thx for all the information and ur for taking the time for this looong answer.
The ancient like language sounded like hebrew but way heavier!!maybe i just thought so because i was screamin my head off!! I studied sufism in my teens. Lived with kurdish people met extreme islamists. I believe there are good things to take in in every culture and its history. In islamic countries there are many people into magick,water readers coffee readers all kind of things o fortune telling (i can read the coffee aswell) they are doing love spells and everything but even tho in islam its "gunah" (sin) to do magick.

Almost everyone could tell u a story regards jinns or angels or 'nur's. we even have a word called 'destur' we use it for example before throwing hot water to the garden (it could harm their children)coz its believed that jinns have a normal life like us and they live among us but allah put a veil in our eyes and we r unable to see them but they can see us. I love ramadan aswell cant do it properly especially when its in the summertime coz of my job but it gives u so much strenghth!! The only bayram (religional holiday) i dont like is the Kurban the one that they sacrifice animals :( all that blood in one day its so very sad. It sickens me. Me n dad we dont eat from kurban meat. Well actually im partly vegeterian :)))

I used to keep a diary with my dreams :) i always say that if theres something that keeps me going its my dreams....
Love & light!!!
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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Fri May 24, 2013 4:27 am

good morning Kassandra!!
i was on my iphone last night and i missed the parts were you put the pictures... i dont know why i couldnt see it, maybe it wasnt compatible or something.
My youngest auntie and her elderly daughter(my cousin) and i we are all Libras. they have precognitive dreams but my `abilities` if i could say are more profound. I dont know my grannys star sign, but i think she was a Libra too. now that im thinking about it my granny was schizophrenic and they say that she murdered my grandad by causing a fire in 1987 3 months prior to my birth...maybe it was truly psychological or just couldnt handle her powers-abilities however you would like to call it. And my elder auntie shes obsessed with `sakalli dede` (hes an old male ghost that helps people, and his white from hair to toe). so we all have a little something in our family :)
bright blessings.
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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby Kassandra » Fri May 24, 2013 8:08 am

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Haha, no, it's not your phone. I added the pics and comments later in the day. I often do that ...write the main text as soon as possible, just to get my response posted, then come back to it later in the day to dress it up some with pics, videos, whatever (I try to make what I write entertaining, because I like to read entertaining stuff myself). I know some might find what I wrote surprising, or otherwise controversial, so I hope they post their comments along those lines on this thread, or any other feedback they might have.

Yes, it's not surprising to me that many others in your family have "abilities." Thank you for all this information, including the Arabic terms for many things. It's fascinating. I hope through this information people are enlightened as to how others around the world have come to deal with the paranormal, that they do more research ...or share what they know here. I saw the other information you have posted in the other forums, as well, thanks.

Below, I have reposted the herbal information you shared, just in case anyone could use this right now (or knows someone who could). Thanks. :wink:

_____________________________________________________________________

My mom gave me some herbs to help me. It is said that they keep the jinns away [shadow people, etc.], if this is what is happening to you too... I searched and found the names in Latin. I hope it helps you:

1.Isatis Tinctoria, with Woad (pron.: /ˈwoʊd/; or glastum) as the common name, is a flowering plant in the family Brassicaceae. It is commonly called dyer's woad. It is occasionally known as Asp of Jerusalem. Woad is also the name of a blue dye produced from the leaves[2] of the plant.

2.Nigella Sativa is an annual flowering plant, native to south and southwest Asia. It grows to 20–30 cm (7.9–12 in) tall, with finely divided, linear (but not thread-like) leaves. The flowers are delicate, and usually coloured pale blue and white, with five to ten petals. The fruit is a large and inflated capsule composed of three to seven united follicles, each containing numerous seeds. The seed is used as a spice.

You can put some Nigella Sativa seeds and Isatis Tinctoria (it stinks) in a little bag and put them under your pillow.

love & light


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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Fri May 24, 2013 9:13 am

hahahaaa :D now i c!! i like the pics and videos i believe others love em too. u put lots of info and time in all this i really appreciate it.

BTW you can grow isatis tinctoria in a pot!! it will keep away jinns from the house ;) or put it in a little triangle shaped cloth(you can sew it) and keep it on you.

bright blessings :)
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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby Kassandra » Sat May 25, 2013 11:23 am

.


hayal wrote:...tho in islam its "gunah" (sin) to do magick.


and perhaps, "shirk," as well. (--?)


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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby -Dark-Moon- » Sat May 25, 2013 3:39 pm

Wicca was really created as a religion because, up until then, it was illegal to practice witchcraft in the uk. The witchcraft act was repealed in 1945.

There were many religions being practiced because of all of the immigrants arriving ... And these immigrants wanted the right to practice their religions, and they were succeeding at being recognised officially. So, up strode the witches!

They jumped on the bandwagon and had wicca listed as a bonafide religion in 1954.

Thus this process, and the invention of 'Wicca' as a religion that practices witchcraft, was a way of preventing religious discrimination to witches.

That is the origin of wicca.
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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Sat May 25, 2013 4:32 pm

Kassandra wrote:.


hayal wrote:...tho in islam its "gunah" (sin) to do magick.


and perhaps, "shirk," as well. (--?)


.

Mmm its difficult to explain... Shirk is some kind OR one of the sins "gunah"s.shirk is when one believes that there is another power besides Allah. So simply its shirk to believe in polytheism. I hope i could explain it :)
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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Sat May 25, 2013 4:39 pm

-Dark-Moon- wrote:Wicca was really created as a religion because, up until then, it was illegal to practice witchcraft in the uk. The witchcraft act was repealed in 1945.

There were many religions being practiced because of all of the immigrants arriving ... And these immigrants wanted the right to practice their religions, and they were succeeding at being recognised officially. So, up strode the witches!

They jumped on the bandwagon and had wicca listed as a bonafide religion in 1954.

Thus this process, and the invention of 'Wicca' as a religion that practices witchcraft, was a way of preventing religious discrimination to witches.

That is the origin of wicca.


So can we say that even if it was founded just a few decades ago that it still is an ancient religion OR with ancient origins?? Or its just the witchcraft itself just an ancient craft?? Hah i think i mixed it up a bit!! Lol
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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Sat May 25, 2013 4:48 pm

Either way i believe we cant deny the ancient origins because of the craft being practised long before the religion founded. It must be complex in aspect of neo paganism and ancient religion. But anyways the most important for me is to serene my soul and be happy. As much as i read and learn the more it makes me feel a part of it ;)
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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby Kassandra » Tue May 28, 2013 12:10 am

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hayal wrote: Or its just the witchcraft itself just an ancient craft??.. It must be complex in aspect of neo paganism and ancient religion.
Yes. Wicca has underwent many, many changes since Gardner's day, as the book reviews written by these nice ladies attest. "Rules," perspectives and practices have changed over the years (for instance, some practitioners dismissed the ranks and degrees, or the Enochian magic, or the Hermetic aspects, etc.). People have made it become what they have needed it to become. Perhaps you'll write the first book about "Wicca with a taste of Muslimanity."


hayal wrote:...the most important for me is to serene my soul and be happy.... ;)
Hey, it's your thang. Do what you wanna' do!




I don't know if you get old "Seinfeld" episodes in Turkey, but it's hilarious. Someone on YouTube
put this video together of a Seinfeld character, "Elaine," trying to dance.




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Re: Muslim-Wiccan ??!!?? Can this happen?

Postby hayal » Fri May 31, 2013 10:34 am

hahaha!!! informative and funny as always Kassandra!! many thanks for all your help :) very much appreciated.

thats a good idea about the book!! i need to learn more and maybe one day ill be ready....

no, i havent seen seinfield :( but the music makes me dance like her !! :D

love,
hyl.
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