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Discussion of Christianity and other religious systems. How can we explain our faith to Christians? How can you merge your faith in Jesus with your belief in the metaphysical?

Postby HallowHim » Wed May 06, 2009 8:42 am

ok it's simple im albanian, and it's hard for me to write english,...i can understand and talk well but write......mmmmmm hard....

and this answer was for hicksfan....because he asked me....
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Postby Starwitch » Thu May 21, 2009 9:28 pm

I would like to share some scriptures from the Qu'ran.

I've done the same with the New Testament. If you want to see New Testament scriptures about women, click there. The Qu'ran scriptures are below and on this thread.

Taken from: http://stopsocialism.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/top-10-quran-quotes-every-woman-must-see/

10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.

The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)


9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:

. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)


8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)


7. A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.

The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:

And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).


6. A wife may remarry her ex—husband if and only if she marries another man and then this second man divorces her.

The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:

And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. [In that case] there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)


5. Slave—girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war] . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).


4. A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:

And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)


3. A husband may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:129 says:

It is not within your power to be perfectly equitable in your treatment with all your wives, even if you wish to be so; therefore, [in order to satisfy the dictates of Divine Law] do not lean towards one wife so as to leave the other in a state of suspense. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 381)


2. Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded).

The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:

4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)


1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.

The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:

6
5:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)
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Postby Imiko » Thu May 21, 2009 9:56 pm

Huh. I see now. Was that why when ever I post, saying something in my opinion he Scrutinizes it? Not pointing or saying anything Rude AT ALL. Just too let everyone know that Ahead of time.
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Postby HallowHim » Fri May 22, 2009 4:10 am

there is something about magic in Quran....

Islam and Magic

Magic is an old human practice. It is sometimes defined as deception by showing something to an audience, which is contrary to reality. In Islam this is part of magic, which is, however, defined as seeking the help of demons to perform something harmful against somebody.

In the light of the above definition, Islam considers magic to be an act of blasphemy. Thus, the Holy Quran say:

"Suleiman (Solomon) did not disbelieve, but the devils disbelieved teaching men magic" (2:102)

In an authentic saying, the Prophet of Islam p.b.u.h. said: Whoever goes to a fortune teller (a soothe sayer) or a diviner and believes him, has, in fact, disbelieved in what has been revealed to Muhammad.

Thus Islam condemns magic- even what is called the horoscope or luck or reading one's palm to foretell the future is also prohibited in Islam. This is based on the belief that no one knows the future or the unseen except God almighty. That is why the Quran asserts that even Muhammad does not know the unseen. Concerning this, it says:

"If I had the knowledge of the unseen, I should have secured abundance for myself, and no evil would have touched me" (7:188).

Again, God is described in the Quran as the knower of the unseen and the manifest (6:73) and as the holder of the keys of the unseen (6:59).

In another tradition, Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. says: "Avoid the seven deadly acts which are: ascribing partners to God, magic, killing the human self which Allah prohibited except with right, eating usury, devouring the orphan's wealth, defecting from the battle-field (without a justified reason) and slandering chaste, unwary believing women. Thus Islam has closed the door for practicing magic, simply because it is against its teachings, and it is deceptive and harmful.

Let us now review some of the verses of the Holy Quran that refer to magic: In Chapter two verse 101-102, the Quran says:

"And when there came to them a Messenger from Allah confirming what was with them, a party of those who were given the scripture threw away the book of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know. And they followed what the devils gave out falsely of magic of the reign of Solomon; for Solomon did not disbelieve but the devils disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels Harut and Marut, but neither of these two (angles) taught anyone (such things) until they had said: we are only for trial, so don't disbelieve. And from them (magicians) people learn that through which they would cause separation between a person and his spouse, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's leave; and they learn that which harms them rather than profits them. And indeed they knew that its practitioner would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their own selves if they but knew" (2:101-2).

Although Solomon was the Prophet and Messenger of God, he was accused by some of his opponents to be practicing magic. Those who claimed this could not distinguish between magic and miracles. Almost all messengers of God were granted miracles as a proof of their authenticity. To name only a few: Moses was granted the staff by which he could divide the sea and make water gush from rocks. Abraham was flung in the middle of a huge raging fire, which Allah made cool and peaceful to him. Jesus Christ could heal the blind and the leper and bring back the dead to life.

If we contemplate these acts we find that miracles are totally different from magic. While magic is always harmful, miracles are useful. Magic is from devils while miracles are from God. When these divine miracles are rejected other miracles are imposed to inflict severe punishments on rejecters. On the other hand, miracles are real while magic is sometimes deceptive.

It may be said that the Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. was himself exposed to the effect of magic. How could you explain this? This is true; but God saved him from the spell of magic through the repeated remembrance of God and the recitation of some chapters and verses of the Holy Quran. This took place to confirm the humility of Muhammad p.b.u.h. who was a human like other humans. This made it easier for his followers to imitate him. Two questions are pertinent in context: How to protect one's self from magic? And how to treat a person under the spell of magic?

Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. provided us with the recipe through which we can protect ourselves from magic. We shall be immune from magic if we recite - after the five daily prayers - the last three chapters of the Holy Quran which are number 112, 113 and 114 And here is their translation:

(112) Unity
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally besought of all! He begets not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him.

(113) Daybreak
In the name of Allah the Beneficent, the Merciful

Say I seek refuge in the in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which he created; From the evil of the darkness when it is intense, and from the evil of malignant witchcraft, And from the evil of the envious when he envies.

(114) Mankind
In the name of Allah the beneficent, the Merciful

Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind, The King of mankind, The God of mankind, From the evil of the sneaking whisper, Who whispers in the hearts of mankind, Of the jinn and of mankind.

These chapters are also recommended to be recited three times after the dawn prayer and three times after the sunset prayer. Secondly Prophet Mohammed p.b.u.h. encouraged us to recite the greatest verse in the Quran called the verse of the Throne, translated as follows:

"Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, and the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. Unto Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedes with Him save by His leave? He knows that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His chair encompasses the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the sublime, the Tremendous" (2:225).

This verse should be recited after each and every one of the five daily prayers and before going to bed.

The Prophet p.b.u.h. also encouraged us Muslims to recite the last two verses of Chapter two at the beginning of every night whose translation is as follows:

"The Messenger believes in that which has been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah and His angles and His scriptures and His messengers and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Your forgiveness, our Lord. Unto you is the journeying" (2:285).

"Allah tasks not a soul beyond its scope. For it (is only) that which it has earned, and against it (only) that which it has deserved. Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget, or miss the mark! Our Lord! Lay not on us such a burden as you did lay on those before us! Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us. You are our Patron; so grant us victory over the disbelieving folk" (2:286).

Prophet Mohammed p.b.u.h. said: (whoever recites the last two verses of the chapter called the Cow, they will suffice him). This means that they will protect him from every evil. Again seeking refuge in Allah and remembering his name is an effective protection against all evils including magic. Two main supplications are recommended in this respect. They are:

1. I seek refuge in the complete words of Allah from the evils of what He created;
2. In the name of Allah through whose name nothing on earth or in heaven can cause any harm.

If these two prayers are recited three times in the beginning of the day and in the beginning of the night, then no harm or evil will approach the reciter by the grace of Allah (S.W.T).

It remains to mention how we can treat a person under the spell of magic. It is possible, on the one hand, to learn magic so that one can use the same tactics. All in all, the best cure is to recite the Quran and seek God's help.
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Postby Imiko » Fri May 22, 2009 9:42 pm

Thank you for the Insight! I will not say that your teachings are wrong, or Misinformed. Because that's just plain old rude. ^^ However, I will say that Not every spell is Made to Harm someone. In fact, if you Cast an 'evil' spell( Is there even such a thing? I highly doubt it. ) , it will come back at you Threefold. Every person practicing the craft knows this, and thus any time we put something evil on someone it will come back at us three times as bad as the spell we originally cast.

Just a little bit of information. To tell you the Truth, we do not worship the Devil nor have anything to do with him. ^^
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Postby Ankhhape » Sat May 23, 2009 8:14 am

Why don't you stop posting from this site http://www.islamawareness.net/BlackMagic/magic.html and speak from your Islamic mind?


Regarding Islam, there is nothing positive about it. I look to the Prophet Muhammad as the typical example. What did he do during his lifetime?

First, he married a much older woman for her wealth. Then when she dies, he has all these kinds of religious visions. He organizes raids to rob caravans and massacred many tribes including Jewish tribes in Arabia.

He married 12 women, kept 10 concubines and had sex with a 9 year old girl whom he married when she was six.

And he had a revelation from God that told him to take his son's wife for himself when he "accidentally saw her naked".

Personally, I am endlessly appalled at all the Abrahamic religions and frankly find these religions to be true aspects of evil on our Earth.
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Postby RuneGeek » Sat May 23, 2009 10:31 am

Ankhhape wrote:Personally, I am endlessly appalled at all the Abrahamic religions and frankly find these religions to be true aspects of evil on our Earth.


I couldn't agree more.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all cut from the same Old Testament cloth. The Old Testament is racist, misogynistic, and it glorifies a deity as "supreme" who demanded that his followers commit rape, kidnapping, and genocide. It infused hatred amongst its adherents that persists among many to this very day.

What's more, I believe that its core philosophy is psychologically damaging. It espouses the idea that our natural, biological inclinations - things "of the flesh" - must be denied in order to enhance one's spirituality. This is in complete opposition to what most pagans - ancient and modern - believe(d)... that in coming closer to our natural beings and nature itself, then - and only then - do we grow spiritually.

Religion that is mired in rules that make little or no sense, that force us to be ashamed of and/or deny our true natures... they create an environment that breeds self-loathing, lack of respect for others, perversion, and a tendency toward violence that can be shown to have manifested itself repeatedly throughout history.

My opinion on this may seem harsh, but it's an opinion built upon a mountain of study and research that ranged from attending Christian schools and even seminary (yes, I was a Christian preacher for a while) to the works of Dawkins, Hitchens, and their ilk. And lest anyone think me intolerant... to "tolerate" something means, basically, to put up with it. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with it, and it doesn't mean you are forced to withhold your own opinion.

If I start lobbying my representatives to outlaw the Abrahamic religions, then I'll be "intolerant". ::coolglasses::
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Postby HallowHim » Tue May 26, 2009 6:52 am

RuneGeek wrote:
Ankhhape wrote:Personally, I am endlessly appalled at all the Abrahamic religions and frankly find these religions to be true aspects of evil on our Earth.


I couldn't agree more.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all cut from the same Old Testament cloth. The Old Testament is racist, misogynistic, and it glorifies a deity as "supreme" who demanded that his followers commit rape, kidnapping, and genocide. It infused hatred amongst its adherents that persists among many to this very day.

What's more, I believe that its core philosophy is psychologically damaging. It espouses the idea that our natural, biological inclinations - things "of the flesh" - must be denied in order to enhance one's spirituality. This is in complete opposition to what most pagans - ancient and modern - believe(d)... that in coming closer to our natural beings and nature itself, then - and only then - do we grow spiritually.

Religion that is mired in rules that make little or no sense, that force us to be ashamed of and/or deny our true natures... they create an environment that breeds self-loathing, lack of respect for others, perversion, and a tendency toward violence that can be shown to have manifested itself repeatedly throughout history.

My opinion on this may seem harsh, but it's an opinion built upon a mountain of study and research that ranged from attending Christian schools and even seminary (yes, I was a Christian preacher for a while) to the works of Dawkins, Hitchens, and their ilk. And lest anyone think me intolerant... to "tolerate" something means, basically, to put up with it. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with it, and it doesn't mean you are forced to withhold your own opinion.

If I start lobbying my representatives to outlaw the Abrahamic religions, then I'll be "intolerant". ::coolglasses::




RuneGeek i agree with you at all....



Ankhhape - Quote- Why don't you stop posting from this site http://www.islamawareness.net/BlackMagic/magic.html and speak from your Islamic mind?

is there any problem where i post from?
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Postby Imiko » Tue May 26, 2009 10:49 am

*Twitch* Okay NOW I'm getting pissed. I've been tolerant up until now.


SOME SITES ARE BIASED. That's why you shouldn't get it from that, it makes it seem as if Muslim is the only way too go, and that's kind of annoying. Also, No one hates you because you're Muslim. NO ONE HATE YOU BECAUSE OF THAT! Understand where I'm coming from?!?
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Postby Starwitch » Tue May 26, 2009 11:01 am

RuneGeek i agree with you at all....


Are you trying to say, "RuneGeek I DON'T agree with you at all?" or "RuneGeek, I agree with you?" The words "at all" don't go with the words "I agree with you".

Have you ever read the rules here? Your posts remind me of what Hedgewitch wrote in the rules, which was:

5. Use your best grammar and spelling. Don't constantly apologize for your lack of proper grammar skills. That is only acceptable if English is not your native language and even then I find it annoying in a major way. If you can't spell, please check your spelling on your posts before you submit them. You can use http://www.spellcheck.net/ to check your spelling. Firefox and Google Chrome browsers have built-in spell checkers.

Consistent bad grammar makes the entire forum look bad. This does not apply to the occasional misspellings that we all make. I'm only talking to the people who misspell mainly because they aren't paying attention and they do not bother to proofread what they wrote before posting. That's just being inconsiderate. Apologizing doesn't make up for failing to proofread. (One member was so obnoxious that he apologized for his grammar in his signature line so that it was included with every post.) When you don't take the time to use proper punctuation and spelling in your posts, not only do you look ignorant and you make all pagans look stupid too, but you are basically saying, in a passive-aggressive way, that YOUR time is much more valuable than everyone else's time. You would prefer that WE spend OUR time and energy to decipher your writing rather than YOU simply taking the time to write clearly in the first place. If you check your motives, you will likely see that this is true. Since only assholes act this way, you'll get kicked off the board if you persist in this behavior.
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Postby Ankhhape » Tue May 26, 2009 5:33 pm

HallowHim wrote:
RuneGeek wrote:
Ankhhape wrote:Personally, I am endlessly appalled at all the Abrahamic religions and frankly find these religions to be true aspects of evil on our Earth.


I couldn't agree more.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all cut from the same Old Testament cloth. The Old Testament is racist, misogynistic, and it glorifies a deity as "supreme" who demanded that his followers commit rape, kidnapping, and genocide. It infused hatred amongst its adherents that persists among many to this very day.

What's more, I believe that its core philosophy is psychologically damaging. It espouses the idea that our natural, biological inclinations - things "of the flesh" - must be denied in order to enhance one's spirituality. This is in complete opposition to what most pagans - ancient and modern - believe(d)... that in coming closer to our natural beings and nature itself, then - and only then - do we grow spiritually.

Religion that is mired in rules that make little or no sense, that force us to be ashamed of and/or deny our true natures... they create an environment that breeds self-loathing, lack of respect for others, perversion, and a tendency toward violence that can be shown to have manifested itself repeatedly throughout history.

My opinion on this may seem harsh, but it's an opinion built upon a mountain of study and research that ranged from attending Christian schools and even seminary (yes, I was a Christian preacher for a while) to the works of Dawkins, Hitchens, and their ilk. And lest anyone think me intolerant... to "tolerate" something means, basically, to put up with it. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with it, and it doesn't mean you are forced to withhold your own opinion.

If I start lobbying my representatives to outlaw the Abrahamic religions, then I'll be "intolerant". ::coolglasses::




RuneGeek i agree with you at all....



Ankhhape - Quote- Why don't you stop posting from this site http://www.islamawareness.net/BlackMagic/magic.html and speak from your Islamic mind?

is there any problem where i post from?
Well for one doesn't this site have plagiarism rules? You at least should give the link from where you cut & paste your vast knowledge from . . . perhaps?
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Postby HallowHim » Wed May 27, 2009 12:13 pm

hey what's wrong with you guys,,what did i say to 'PISSED' of imiko, and just analyze all my posts please just do that and you will see that i'm not trying to fight here,...you and the others are always attacking me...
let me tell you for me RuneGeek is a great person and i respect him...and yes I AGREE with him on that post....


and i want you to analyze Ankhhape's posts and i think you should say something to him too.... ncncncncncnc
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Postby Ankhhape » Wed May 27, 2009 7:56 pm

HallowHim wrote:hey what's wrong with you guys,,what did i say to 'PISSED' of imiko, and just analyze all my posts please just do that and you will see that i'm not trying to fight here,...you and the others are always attacking me...
let me tell you for me RuneGeek is a great person and i respect him...and yes I AGREE with him on that post....


and i want you to analyze Ankhhape's posts and i think you should say something to him too.... ncncncncncnc
As you have rudely insisted in a PM to me that I not post about you, I would prefer you not post about me.
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Postby NightRose » Wed May 27, 2009 9:02 pm

Oh dear.

I realize that things that have happened that have upset quite a few people, and I believe I've heard a little bit too much about angry PMs...can we please try to stop that and all play along? We don't need this to turn into a flamewar, and we should all be mature enough here to ignore the people we do not like.

So, please, all of you. This thread has slowly degenerated a long ways from it's initial intentions, and has turned into an angry argument thread. Please, either talk about Muslim beliefs, or just ignore each other. This angry sniping is not getting us anywhere except raising negative energy.
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Postby Starwitch » Wed May 27, 2009 9:59 pm

I apologize for letting this continue as long as I did. This jerk has been banned. Thanks for telling me about the PM peeps.

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