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Let's talk about Overpopulation

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Let's talk about Overpopulation

Postby Starwitch » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:34 pm

What are everyone's views on overpopulation? I would like to know. Do you think it's a problem? If you DO believe it's a problem, are you planning to have children of your own? If you plan to have children, do you think it's possible to stop at one or two, or do you plan to have three or four or more? If so, why? Does anyone think there should be restrictions on the number of children we can have? They have restrictions in India and China. They can only have one child, and since female children are such a horrible BURDEN on the family, they abort the girls and try for a boy. Or they abandon the girl once she is born and she ends up being sold as a sex slave to some pervert in the US or elsewhere. Many Americans adopt Chinese girls who are abandoned, which is great. But too many other people would rather do in vitro fertilization for years and years, trying to have their own baby, than to adopt one of the thousands (millions?) of unwanted babies in the world. It's not that I don't understand their reasoning... it's an obsession. They WANT to have a baby, and they want it to be theirs, not an adopted baby. But then they use in-vitro, and instead of having ONE baby of their own, now they have seven babies and little baby girls are dying in China because no one wants them and they are literally left in a room to die (while in orphanages). This is true and I'm not making any of this up. But I also understand that adopting overseas can be a bit expensive. Not nearly as expensive as in vitro, which is $10,000 for every time you TRY to get pregnant (it can take many times and sometimes doesn't work at all.) It's about $10,000 to adopt a baby from China, so it's not like these couples don't have the money. They just want a baby that is biologically theirs, even though the Goddess saw fit not to "bless" them with children naturally. Adopting in the US is also a great option and much cheaper too. It may not be easy to do, but neither is in vitro, which is painful, degrading, makes you gain a ton of weight (hormones) and makes most women get depressed (I've heard.)

As pagans, I would hope that we could help the situation as best we could. You will help save the Earth better by not adding more people to it than you would by planting a tree.

People say "WHY did the Tsunami happen? How could God/Goddess wipe out THAT many people all at once?" Well, think about it... if we, as pagans, believe that the Earth is a living spirit and she has some control over what goes on here, why aren't we aware that if we keep overpopulating Her and destroying Her with the garbage that people create, that She will fix the problem the only way She can - with natural disasters that kill many thousands of people at once. If there were enough of these disasters, we could keep having four or five babies each and it wouldn't be a problem. I predict that the "end times" spoken of in the Bible are a prediction of Mother Earth taking care of the overpopulation problem.

I know this is a sensitive topic for many people, especially people who have children. I certainly am not saying that you are wrong for having children. Having children is something that is ingrained in us from the time we are young. We all just assume that we will grow up, get married, and have kids. Period. No one questions the plan. They just do it. So I can't blame anyone or say they are wrong for simply doing what they were taught and what most other people are doing. Not having children is a choice that does not go over well with many people. If you decide to help the Earth in this way, other people will harrass you about it, call you a child-hater, say that you are selfish, and other mean things. And not everyone is NOT having children because they are trying to help the Earth. There are many other reasons. But as pagans, I would think this would be the most relevant reason to discuss here on this forum.

Agree? Disagree? Comments?

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Postby Azure*Skye » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:11 pm

I honestly have too agree with about the Tsunami Over-population theory. I know it may sound harsh. But when I heard about the Tsunami hitting the very first thing that came to mind was the Goddess had to deal with over-population...we as Human beings have done nothing but grow & grow...Nature has a way of working things out and keeping order...even if it means that mass destruction has to take place...Sometimes Life isn't fair. I lost my best friend last year to cancer...she had two little girls...what's fair about that...but I stopped asking "why?" and accept that the Goddess has her reasons, as with the Tsunami I believe Over-Population was her reasoning. And is right on the money as far as i'm concerned. I hope I don't offend anyone by this theory.
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Postby JBRaven » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:38 pm

I belive that natural disaters are the Mother telling the world that it is over populated.

I also belive in a saying " We are seperated for the sake of union". Meaning the male and female aspects.

Yes, I do have a child even though I took many procautions agienst having one. This tells me it was fate for me to have one.

I am really agienst in-virto, (agreeing with ) I think that adoption is the BEST thing anyone can ever do. If the Mother had decided that you should not have your own she gives you a natural way of caring for another life.
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Postby Azure*Skye » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:21 pm

Absolutly JBRaven,
I could'nt agree with you and more on the in-vitro thing also. Adoption is a beautiful thing...
We are heading, if not already in an Emergency Situation where Over population is concerned...the numbers are staggering if you think how many humans will be populating this earth in Fifty years from now...It makes me scared for my Daughters future...I will instill in her my feelings of having a HUGE family and I can only hope she shares my views...Having 1 child per couple at this stage of the game MAY help the issue...but try explaining that to my Irish-Catholic Family...they push out kids like there Kittens...there are too many of us and we are simply running out of resources and space to live HEALTHY lives...this is one topic that there is no Large Voice for...we all want to cure Cancer and Aids and what ever other aweful affliction hits the human race...but Over-population is just as big a Disease...Like I said...I'm scared for the Future.
Hmmm...what a ray of sunshine I am :)
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Postby Heaven_and_Earth » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:59 pm

Because of who I am i wont have kids but i still want them so for a while i have considered adopting one when i am of age, i realise im only 17 and kids are totally out of the question but when the time comes i believe that i will take one of the kids that feel like they are not wanted and give them a good home, heck i love kids id worry about not leaving with just one:P

also do i agree with everyones oppinion on the tsunami insident for the past few years i have been worrying over the world killing themselves, i know its a bit out of the ordinary considering i am only but a child but i worry day after day what we are becoming. we sell our kids we abandon them we grow so fast that nothing is going to be left for us to grow into we will become packed like sardines if we arent already. im seriously hating the war, the violence the hate god at times it makes me feel like giving up all hope on humanity. but lets face it we are the front lines i believe and together i think we can make some kind of difference.

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Postby Lulu » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:07 pm

I agree, overpopulation is very bad. I plan to adopt, and make extra sure that I will not get pregnant.

My thought, is that there are so many children in this world, that are brought here, and not wanted, and brought here without the parents even thinking, that it is another life you are messing with, not just your own.

These children, will not really know a loving parent, or grandparent, and, if I can give a loving envirornment for a child, and love that child, then why not adopt. I love children, and I have love to give, and that will mean more, I think, then having my own children, (which is usually on "accident" and I have seen so many times, friends getting pregnant, but regreting it)
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Postby JBRaven » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:13 pm

The problem of over population has other factors than childbirth. A huge one is people are living longer with all the new techonlogy that is out these days. The life expectancey is what near 70. At one time you were old if you lives past 30. Many people died in War, we haven't had a true war in quite some time. The rate of survival of a mother in childbirth has greatly increased. So on and So on.
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Postby Azure*Skye » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:21 pm

JBRaven makes one hell of a good point.
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Postby hedge* » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:33 am

Another point to make is that Mother Earth kicks back for a number of reasons; Pollution, cutting down forrests, over fishing, drilling for oil, animal extinction, wasting energy, over population etc etc. There are many factors which all add up to the same results; tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, landslides etc etc. Mother Earth is reacting to peoples actions. Myself, as an Earth worshipping pagan, can do my bit such as re-cycle and turn the tap off when I'm brushing my teeth. We as humans need to take responsibility and try to put right some of the damage we have done. We can all do it in our own little ways.

2 or 3 years ago there was an article in one of the national tabloids that showed a new born baby lying naked in the gutter in China. There were people passing her on their way to work and nobody picked her up or anything, she was just left there!!!!
can you beleive that, it's an outcry.


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Postby Starwitch » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:22 am

That's very sad Hedge. No one wants the baby girls. It's horrible that anyone would leave ANY baby, boy or girl, in a gutter, and not at least drop them off at an orphanage or something.

It's exactly true what JBRaven said. That was also on the overpopulation website I was reading when I posted this topic. You should always know too that statistics or "truth" usually has more behind it. People can promote whatever agenda they might have (like I did) and make it sound true, but sometimes it is a partial truth and they are leaving out some important information to benefit their cause (be aware of statistics and "truths") lol. That is exactly what I did - left out some of the important information because I'm more concerened with breeding (and because my post was getting rather long). But it's true that we are actually not having more children than before (as far as any one person having children), the problem is that there are MORE people having children and like JB said, we aren't dying when we are in our 40's like we used to. Plus, babies aren't dying at birth (or soon after) like they used to many times in the old days before we knew about the effects of germs. If you want to know the whole story, and not just one person's biased opinion, you should really read up on overpopulation. If you want to know the biased version, you can read "childfree" sites. Can you believe I just said that (admitted that I was biased?) ha-ha. Not too many people do that, I suppose.

Here is the Overpopulation website I was reading, if anyone is interested:
http://www.overpopulation.org/

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Postby Lulu » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:54 pm

Yes, that makes a whole lot of sense too.

When I made my post, I was also kind of biased as well, :D because I am looking forword to adopting children from parts of asia and would like others to do the same more.

But, yes, the fact that people are living until they are 80, rather than 50, is also contributing to overpopulation. Seems people now a days, have dying as an option, rather than something that is going to happen. If that makes since. :?
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Postby Starwitch » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:43 pm

Yeah really. I'm not sure I want to live that long, but I guess we'll see what happens. I would rather not keeping living in ill health the way many people do. Well, that's what I think NOW, while I'm healthy. I guess I may feel differently about it as I get older or sicker.

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Postby JBRaven » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:17 pm

I am more into the quality of live over the sancity. ( I use to debate the hell out of euthanasia both sides)
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Postby 5moons » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:54 pm

The earth can only take so much. What is used to make anew and maybe take people with it. Elements. Flash Floods. Lava. Twisters. You name it earthquakes is another. I am just saying that the earth is taking care of itself on ways it knows how.
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Postby Rythe of Doom » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:25 pm

If the Earth uses natural disasters to stop the possibility of over-population, then why does it continue plate tectonics and volcano activity. Basically, if Earth is using natural disasters to stop over-population, then why is it creating more land through volcanic eruptions? Everytime a volcano of such calibar erupts, one square mile is added to land. Its the belief that the continents came around the same way the island La Palma was created. A sea floor volcano after every eruption would add another layer of land to it until it surfaced, creating island, creating a continent. Even though the process is somewhat time consuming, the question is Why would the Earth/divinity decide to kill people to stop over-population when more room could be simply added? With telomere erosion, species become extint slowly as each generation errodes the telomere cells at the end of chromosomes, causing instability.

I believe that telomere erosion is a bit more of a problem than over-population.

:D w00 I got carried away. I love science. And magic. O.O
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