~ EUTM ~ Forum for Witchcraft & Wiccan Spirituality

[Red]

Therefore, what you and your God believe to be true isn't necessarily what I and my Gods believe to be true. We may both stand on Mother Earth, but that doesn't mean we have the same reality.

What does it mean for you and your Gods when my God claims to be all-knowing, and then says, "are there any other gods besides me? No, I don't know of any."

If objective truth were determined what we can all agree on then we would never find any meaningful truth, if we ever found any at all.

[Sercee]

I believe that the Christian God is a liar. He has lied many times.

[Red]

I believe that the Christian God is a liar. He has lied many times.

This is an honest question: When did He lie to you?

When have you caught Him in a lie?

Do your Gods ever lie?

[Exilus]

I will anser this for you Sercee. Red read the post weare the other people. It is not us that was lied to, and he was caught in a lie in the very first book of the bible. Enjoy it.

Our gods do not need to lie and when they do usally it is proven later that it was because they wished us to learn something on our own. Our gods tell us what is right and wrong in our hearts, and as long as your heart holds it as true, so will the gods.

[Storm]

Truth is subjective.

Is that definitely true? Perhaps we might say that there is objective concrete truth out there that is true no matter what we think about it.

Pontius Pilate asked Jesus your same question, "What is truth?" But Jesus had already said what it was in His prayers the night before: "...your [God's] word is truth." (John 17:17)

ZZzzZZZzzz... oh.. sorry.. what? Sorry about that, I seem to have nodded off while you were talking. How very rude of me.

[Sercee]

Thank you Exilus.

What he said, Red.

[WolfWitch]

Now now kids play nice. Red is being very polite and actually wanting to "debate", rather than argue, try doing the same. (this isn't aimed at everyone, just a couple.)

Red: To answer one of your previous questions. I personally turned away, not because of the scriptures but of the way I was being told I had to interprit them. The Bible in an of itself, is full of very good teachings and much to ponder on in regards to faith, regardless of your beleif. I just became fed up with the blatent hypocrisy I encountered. That's why I started searching for my faith.
I chose Wicca because it made an incredible amount of sence to me. It mirrored very close to things I observed and theorized on my own, even though some of it was things that my former religeon said I should never think about. It also placed God in a place I had never felt before, inside me. For the first time, here was faith that I was allowed to practice on my own whenever I felt the want or desire. The methodology was intimate if I so chose.
I finally felt as if I could touch the face of God if I wanted to without fear of my church declaring me bad for having thought to do so.
If Christianity is what your heart tells you is true, so be it. I wish you peace and good fortune. But Solitary Wicca is what my heart is telling me is true. When we die, we'll finally know what is the "real" truth, but then again, at that point it's kinda moot. I just live to make the life around me better for myself and the others who have to live it with me.

Blessed be.

WW.

[Exilus]

Wolfwitch this was early in the debate, and debate he did get, but he refused to asnwer it. the rest of the posts are spread out over several threads.

[Storm]

Wolfwitch - I was very polite at first, before it became most obvious that Red came here to proslytise - in fact he admitted as much to me. He ignored requests to stop doing so.

Hence... I stopped being polite.



Here are just some of his comments:

I am a christian doing what christians do when I go out witnessing (preaching, prosilytizing, evangelizing, etc.) online or on the street. It is my religion. It is no different in principle than when you do what pagans do when you pray or conduct ceremonies in private.

Just as you try to pay us respect by not coming to christian forums, I pay you my respect by coming to yours and talking about Jesus.


Pontius Pilate asked Jesus your same question, "What is truth?" But Jesus had already said what it was in His prayers the night before: "...your [God's] word is truth." (John 17:17)


The offer of friendship with God through His own death and resurrection. The path is by no means walked alone, and the point of it all is never the path or the summit (there is no summit, there is no mountain), but God Himself who is walking next to you is the point, and then those you come alongside. In a few words: reconciliation and friendship with our Maker whom we have betrayed. That is higher than any teaching our spiritual state.

[Sercee]

Just as you try to pay us respect by not coming to christian forums, I pay you my respect by coming to yours and talking about Jesus.


This is one that really got me twitching. It didn't sound like he wanted an actual debate at all. But we did try to give him one.

[Thorn]

The article is so great. I'm printing it off, so I can read it to my dad's new girlfriend. She is very Christian, and she nows I'm not. I would love for her to read it, maybe it would explain me a little better. She's not trying to shove her religion down my throat, but she also doesn't accept my religion, and she subtly sends me E-mail about Jesus, and repenting. I know she doesn't agree with my religious choice, I just want her to accept me.

Thank-you

[Sercee]

(off topic: psst Thorn I like your signature. I've liked that poem since I read it in the Crow)

[Eretik]

More off topic, but a little on it too, in an oblique way - I love it in the film, when Crow says " to a child, God's name is mother". That sums up one perception of godhead, anyway.

[Sercee]

I am a massive Crow fan.

Here's the full quote (not picking on you Eretik, just being a geek!)
"Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children."

[Eretik]

Thanks, geeky or no, I remember things, but often paraphrase them! It always reminded me that motherhood is powerful and not to be abused.