*~* Witchcraft and Wicca Forum *~* EUTM


How can someone be a Christian Witch?

Discussion for and about Christian witches and pagans. How do you merge your two belief systems? Please be kind to Christian witches. I have come to believe that it is a very valid belief system.

How can someone be a Christian Witch?

Postby Moon_Stone » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:26 pm

If anyone out there is a practicing Christian Witch, how do you do it?

From what I understand, the Bible teaches "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" (meaning all witches and practitioners of the Old Religion should be put to death)...and also I believe a great deal of the manner in which the Bible became the preferred religion of the time, replacing witchcraft, aka "The Old Religion", was to make certain that witchcraft and witches were completely shunned therein... Given all this, following one path tells you to, in fact, despise and totally disapprove of the other... which makes this is a very contradictory belief system! Please share how you, as a Christian Witch or just someone who knows, deal with this internal controversy and contradiction.

...Anything I don't know is something I want to know.
Thank you for your candor- I promise not to judge.

~Blessed Be~
Moon_Stone
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 pm
Location: Where the Wild Things are

Postby The Judge » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:06 am

While I'm not completely read-up on this I know that the bible was translated that way for church purposes. The word used in the Arabic writing, which was the original, in the line "Thou shalt suffer no Witch to live." Actually translates literally to "Thou shalt suffer no Sorcerer to live" while sorcerer is only one word that it translates to it has several, Witch is not one of them, but it was interpretted that way due to the time the Bible was printed in English. 'Witch' was a convenient term to use during that time to convert people. There are severak examples in the Bible of things being translated in a certain way to make others look 'Evil'.

Best I can do on 3 hrs or sleep for now, if there is any other questions, feel free to ask. This forum is for Christian Witches but I'm sure questions are welcome.

Oh, and I'm not a Christian Witch, I just like to know what ammunition can be used and pull the lead out of it, lol.

Blessed Be,:D
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Do not attempt, Achieve
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
User avatar
The Judge
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:51 pm
Gender: Male

Postby Moon_Stone » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:23 pm

Hmm, very interesting Judge- thanks for the reply.

I'm probably the most unknowledgeable person with regard to the Bible, in fact that particular phrase I referenced came from my 11 year old daughter's best friend (who is a witch-hating Christian). I'm interested to know more about how those who do, combine the two faiths. It's interesting to see all that's molded to fit the particular agenda at the time though. A bit pathetic too that more people don't question it.

I really do feel for her though- at 11 she feels terribly torn that she can't tell her friend about me and my beliefs; (why she feels she needs to though, is beyond me- I think it's more the issue of secret-keeping that bothers her). Poor thing just feels she simply has to listen to her friend tell her that 'witches are against God' and 'witches shouldn't be allowed to live'.

We have such a long way to go.

Anyhow, thanks for the insight. :28:

~BB~
Moon_Stone
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 pm
Location: Where the Wild Things are

Postby The Judge » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:47 am

While I know where the other kid is getting it from, which is the sad part, but it is only that way because the church translated the Bible the way they did, in an effort to convert Pagans of that period, they also revolved a few holidays around Pagan ones to make the transition easier and less contriversial. It worked well at the time. They also used other methods to attempt to convert others, though the alternative they used was death, so it was very effective. This is how they convert others, they threaten them with eternity in Hell and death, and they had the advantage of numbers so they had a profound effect, though they had difficulty spreading into the country. More later, if your still interested.

Blessed Be,:D
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Do not attempt, Achieve
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
User avatar
The Judge
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:51 pm
Gender: Male

Postby Moon_Stone » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:07 pm

Thanks for all that info, Judge. It's very interesting to learn about the history of Christianity- and just exactly how the Pagan "Old Religion" was disbanded as the primary religion to be replaced by Christianity- that was something that I did know some about- but not too much as to the reasoning why. It might be a good stickey to add to the forum somewhere, to educate all parties, not just practicing Christian Witches... perhaps sometime if you have a lot of time on your hands... :wink:

My philosophy is that it's good to know all the sides and stories, before making any determinations. :28:

Thanks again!

~Blessed Be~
Moon_Stone
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 pm
Location: Where the Wild Things are

Postby Flutterfly » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:48 pm

From what I know, having grown up in a multi-cultural / multi-faith neighbourhood, a lot of Christians, themselves argue over what is the true bible.

Many acknowledge that Catholics and some Jewish people/groups tried to keep early scriptures from others. It is said that early Catholics kept scriptures from people so that they could have control over it (many think that some were destroyed and/or altered). The Catholics say that they simply didn't want people interpreting scriptures the wrong way and wanted to teach people "the words of God" in the "right" way. Yes, I have known Catholics who have said this.

Bibles and scriptures were kept from people for a long time. When a bible was finally put together, (after people pleaded) many things were omitted. There is a King James Version (KJV), written in old english, which was printed in 1611, the supposed first english translation. Today's more modern bibles have further translated lol and having read many translations and versions , myself, you can see that a lot changes.

Many more strict Christians, that I have known, have even learned Hebrew and bits and pieces of ancient Greek (what can be learned) and found that words have been changed. Yahweh (YHWH) to Yehovah (Jehovah) to God.

There is also the New Jerusalem bible, which claims to have replaced as much of the omitted text as is possible. Still in more modern English though.

For a time people were banned from owning bibles and there were wars etc., before the King James Version was released.

Also because of the attempts to alter and/ or hid the bible, it has some contradictions in it. One, is in Genesis, where it mentions the creation of man. It first talks about the creation of the Earth and living things. Now, many Christians believe that God is a man and only a male and that humans were created in God's image. Yet, it says "Let us, make man in our image". Who is "us"?

Some Christian witches I have spoken to say that "us" is acknowledging the feminine and the masculine aspects of God. To some Christian witches, God is both male and female. Also, when woman was created from Adam's rib, it means, that woman was created at the side of Adam, as an equal. Not below or beneath.

Christian witches work with angels, and some believe in other beings like spirit guides. In the book of Revelations, it refers to God as a sevenfold spirit and so interpretations are made from that, as the bible doesn't go into much detail about that (in the modern un-burnt translations).

Whilst some Christians are scared of everything and think everything is evil (and homeschool their kids to keep them away from the evil world), others have studied and studied and found many other things/beings acknowledged that are discussed and are not said to be evil. (Yes, I have also known homeschooling Christians who's children looked terrified if you mentioned the word "magazine" or the outside world).

They don't celebrate Christmas or Easter though, (the ones who have studied more) as they believe them to have been created to convert people. They acknowledge the birth and death of Christ, but don't celebrate them. Neither do they believe that Jesus on died on a cross (because it's a Pagan symbol).

Oh yeah, and other bibles like the Ethiopian Orthodox bible are said to contain the most scriptures. Having left little out. But, then again it's a translation too.

There's so much more, but this post is long enough. I have read and researched a lot and spoken to many people of many faiths and denominations. I like to teach my kids the truth about religions and religious tolerance.

One last thing....the word witch in modern translations, is actually derived from ancient Greek. The word "pharmakiah"- pharmacy-pharmaceutical. So I guess you could say that doctors are witches too. lol. (I have also met Christians, who because of the word "pharmakiah" refuse to seek medical help. Their youngest daughter fainted in a shop and banged her head on the way down, they layed hands on her and prayed).

This post in not anti-christian, or anti-christian witch/wiccan nor is it anti-pagan, just sharing what I have learned.

:)
Flutterfly
 

Postby Starwitch » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:56 pm

Forgive me if this has already been pointed out, as I didn't get a chance to read the entire page.

If you think of everything, including spirits such as Jesus Christ, as energy, then it's quite possible to practice witchcraft and also pray to Jesus. Although I don't practice witchcraft very much anymore, I do find myself praying to Jesus (and the Angels, Spirit Guides, God, Goddess, and my Higher Self) when I really want help with something. I figure that they are all powerful and they all have the ablitiy to help so I don't limit myself to just one deity.

Many people who have been raised Christian but then converted to paganism/witchcraft, find that it has become a habit for them to pray to Jesus when they need something, and it's not something they particularly want to give up. So, since they obviously don't believe in the Bible, or they wouldn't be practicing witchcraft in the first place, it's easy to see how they can be a witch AND believe in Jesus Christ. And since believing in Jesus Christ is technically what makes you Christian, there is actually no need to believe in the entire Bible. (Actually, I think Jesus may tell you to believe in the Bible, but that was also before it was edited beyond all recognition, so who knows what it said originally?)

I used to have a lot of trouble understanding the term "Christian Witch" and I would argue with people about how you couldn't actually be a Christian Witch due to the Bible saying that witchcraft was wrong. But, the more I opened my eyes and my mind, the more I was able to see that you can pretty much be ANYTHING that you want in this world. It doesn't matter what other people believe or what the Bible says. If you feel an affinity with Jesus, then worship Jesus! That doesn't mean you have to believe in the Bible and follow everything it says to do. Even Christians don't actually follow the Bible (how many Christian women do you know that cover their heads?)

Want to practice witchcraft and pray to Jesus at the same time? Who is going to stop you? It may be confusing to some people but it's not going to stop you from actually doing that if that's what you desire.

I used to not understand how gay people could be Christian. Nearly all of the gay people I had ever met were Christian. I couldn't comprehend how they would want to be involved in a religion that despised them. But now I can see that it's simple to understand... They were raised Christian. They found out that they were gay. That didn't change the fact that they felt a connection to Jesus Christ. It's difficult to change habits and beliefs that have been ingrained since you were a child.

Hope that helps explain things some. I'm sorry to hear that your daughter is having such a hard time. My own ex-step-daughter (whom I still see regularly since Ron and I are still a couple) doesn't want her friends to know that I'm not a Christian, but that is mainly because I have told her that kids will be more accepting of her if she doesn't mention it. It's still extremely rare in Tennessee to find anyone who isn't Christian. This doesn't affect me on a day-to-day basis, but it could easily affect a kid who is in school. They could be ostracized, teased, or even bullied if the other kids found out that their family wasn't Christian. Kids can be very cruel to one another.

You could point out to your daughter the fact that most kids never talk about religion at all. It's not something that people generally discuss in casual conversation. That might help her understand that it's not the huge deal she thinks it is.

I'm guessing that she attracted this opinionated friend to her because she had some negative feelings of her own that she wasn't addressing. Her friend acts as a mirror for her, showing her the characteristics about herself that she doesn't accept. Your daughter may feel guilty because she sometimes wishes she had a "normal" mom who was a Christian, but since she would never admit such a thing, she attracts a friend (through the Law of Attraction) who feels this way but who doesn't mind expressing it to everyone. Anyway, it's just a thought. It may or may not apply to your situation.

Brightest Blessings,
User avatar
Starwitch
Owner
Owner
 
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Gender: Female

Re: Ok, I'm curious...

Postby Venusis » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:29 am

MoonStone wrote:If anyone out there is a practicing Christian Witch, how do you do it?

From what I understand, the Bible teaches "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" (meaning all witches and practitioners of the Old Religion should be put to death)...and also I believe a great deal of the manner in which the Bible became the preferred religion of the time, replacing witchcraft, aka "The Old Religion", was to make certain that witchcraft and witches were completely shunned therein... Given all this, following one path tells you to, in fact, despise and totally disapprove of the other... which makes this is a very contradictory belief system! Please share how you, as a Christian Witch or just someone who knows, deal with this internal controversy and contradiction.

...Anything I don't know is something I want to know.
Thank you for your candor- I promise not to judge.

~Blessed Be~


This is so deep, but I will try to explain my beliefs without writing a book.

First of all there are so many levels of Christianity and everyone interprets the Bible differently as it is suppose to be prayed about before it is read and the interpretation should be different for each person reading it. It is such a complex manual and it almost never is translated literally. The Catholic church uses practices of the Old Ways. You will never enter a church that is not shaped like a cross. They always use all of the elements in there mass and they are set at the 4 corners of the cross. The Catholic churches make me feel weird though because at some point they decided they needed to block energy. There is some kind of force field around the building that keeps positive and negative energy out, like a neutral zone if you will. They pray with all the Saints and worship a woman as a Goddess. They have rituals involving candles, incences, and faith. They chant specific words in specific orders to rid the human body of demonic possession. This is not that different from Wiccan (of course I am new at this, but everything I have read so far).

Now, how do I balance the two. There is only a small handful of bible verses that contradict WitchCraft.
1. Thou Shalt have no Gods before me. --This is easy. I believe there are many God's and Goddesses and Only one is the all powerful creator of everything. He created man and woman in his likeness saying to me that "God" is a divine combination of the male and female. I also believe he sent his son so save us. To show how much he loves us and that there are so many likenesses between a god and a man. The oldest religions are likely the truest religions. But I believe that a god can chose to change some things as time goes on. One has to be cautious though in determining what has been changed by the Gods and what has been change by corrupt men.

2. The bible says that the soul will live once on earth and then be delivered to its final resting place in heaven or hell. There are plenty of Christian religions that do not even believe in hell. How can one believe that this all powerful loving father who loves us as his children would burn us for all eternity because we did something he didn't want us to. I completely disagree with this and have prayed and contemplated reincarnation many times. I believe its real. I remember my past lives. I have never seen hell, but if its real, I believe its a product of the tortured mind and one can get out of it (like in Buddhist teachings of the hell realm where you are only there until you realize it and then you can do good things to return to the bardow(the place between life and rebirth)).

3. One shall not permit a witch to live was already address but I would like to elaborate on it. In about 300 a.d. The christian religion was losing, so to speak, to Paganism so the King rewrote the scrolls that were written by Jesus disciples. He picked the ones that he wanted and changed the words to suit him because the kingdom needed money. Everyone was so afraid of burning in hell for all eternity that they did whatever they were told to avoid it. The origin of Confession in the Catholic church simply came from needing money, but then they payed the church to be free of sin instead of saying "Hail Mary".
So basically the bible we have to read is not what was written originally. There is rumored to be a gospel according to Mary Magdalene who is a very controversial person. She may have been the bride of Christ. She may have bared a child who was part god and part man. And they may have hidden this from everyone in order to protect the bloodline of Christ. There are many many gospels that are not included in the bible that are locked away somewhere in the Vatican. And unless you speak Aramaic and Ancient Hebrew (which only a handful of people do) you have to go with your instincts on what you feel is right and wrong.

Because of this I believe that we all just have to do what feels right in our hearts. Paying a church to tell me what I should and should not do does not feel right to me. It does not matter how much money we give to the church, god will never have it, nor does he have a use for it. There are other ways we can do good in this world than pay for elaborate temples to be built. I do not consider myself a religious person. I believe that has to be some truth to most all religion that has been around for thousands of years. I feel comfortable combining the teachings of all to find peace on earth and reach enlightenment.

I hope this answers your question. Feel free to debate your opinions. I do not have internal controversy because I feel as long as I am harming no one and nothing my soul is safe from any type of Karmic repercussions including hell even if it does exist.
Venusis
 

Postby rawrjess » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:31 pm

For me, I've ignored the old timey definition of a witch as some kind of old hag that kills animals and sacrifices them to the Christian devil in return for some kind of powers or magical favor.

I see it like this:

I, as a teen Christian witch, practice both beliefs together, in harmony.

I actively - and love to - attend my teen services on Sunday and Wednesday at my Christian church. I have friends there, my best friend, April, who is also a Christian witch, does the very same with me. I pray to God, I believe that he loves and takes care of me as a father.

I also actively do spell work - a once a week kind of thing - and light candles or bake or make dinner with April to give thanks and tell the Goddess how much I love and appreciate her aid in my journey of life.

In that sense, I think of God and the Goddess as my spiritual mother and father.

Kind of like there are some things you can tell your mother that you can't tell your father...kind of thing.

As a Christian witch, I think the Goddess gives me wisdom and strength - which I'm so grateful to her for - and God gives me moral [which the Goddess does too] to help me make the right decisions.

Of course, I cast spells only for good. I don't ever want to hurt a person with it, force someone to fall in love with me, bring back the dead, whatever. Every spell I cast, I try to word it so that I thank the Goddess for her aid and for listening to me, and when they are successful, I praise her and thank her for making it possible.

And when I cast a spell - I should say we, as April and I are kind of our own coven - when we cast a spell, we try to word it correctly so that the law of three is obeyed and respected, but also so that what we cast will benefit anyone who comes in contact with it, not just other witches.

Quite recently, I did a rain spell on my own which made it rain for a couple of hours a day for two days that was successful two weeks after I cast the spell.

I did it to try and aid in some of the fires around here - California - so that fewer people would be in danger. I don't know these people, or their religions, but if it helps them then I feel good and it makes my heart fuller.

I will, of course, admit that April and I have done our share of personal spells too. We've been actively casting spells together for almost two months - I began to study about a year and a half ago - and we've done a love spell together.

It was to bring more love to us. We were highly accepting of any kind of love we received, but as of presently, we've met two young men who go to my Christian church that we like very much. They could very well be the love we asked for.

I did a few tarot readings for us both over the span of three weeks and if I'm correct and read right, these boys have both been through heartache, just as we have, so being together to understand each other would benefit all four of us.

So, to wrap it up, I make it work by obeying the basic principles of both faiths if they don't contradict each other and combine the best of both worlds to follow.

I feel...incredibly fulfilled. :]
rawrjess
 

Postby Moon_Stone » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:54 pm

Wow, Kiwi... and everyone-- thank you for sharing your great responses and experiences.

This thread has definitely turned out to be quite informative! :28:

~Blessed Be~
Moon_Stone
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 pm
Location: Where the Wild Things are

Postby EalainCoill » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:21 pm

The way I understand it is if you break both Christian and Witch down to the basic meanings, then they do not conflict with one another. Christian basically means "One who believes Jesus is Christ." Witchcraft basically means "a craft that involves harmony with nature and use of magic." It seems quite possible to value nature, use magic, and accept Jesus as Christ.

A Christian need not believe in the Bible. Many Christians do not believe every passage in the Bible. In my understanding, it is quite impossible to believe everything in it, making it so the Christian must pick and choose what to believe and what to discard. (IE - the two seperate creation stories, the passages promoting violence vs the passages promoting peace) I suppose all you really need from the Bible to be a Christian is one of the gospels.

A Witch need not believe in the Lord and Lady. If you take Witchcraft to mean a craft, and not a religion, it quite simply does not interfere with Christianity.

I think I may have counted as a Christian Witch for most of the past year. I've been practicing a little magic here and there over that time, experimenting and all that, but I didn't stop believing in the Christian God until very recently. Now, I've opened myself up to a new path, but that's not to say that the path of the Christian Witch is wrong - just not for me at this stage in my life. I don't believe any religion is wrong - I believe that everyone has to find their own spiritual path, and that of the Christian Witch is just as acceptable as any other. :)
EalainCoill
 

Postby gwenblackbird » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:37 pm

For me being a Christian/Wiccan/Pagan and etc is just being able to believe in different things that are entwined with all of those religions.
Like i believe that there is a Heaven and a Hell, and I also believe that there is God, Jesus Christ, Satan, the Goddess and etc. I also believe that there are other gods and goddesses. I believe that people can use magic and what not but as long as you believe in God that you shouldn't be condemned basically.

That's to sum it up.
gwenblackbird
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:02 pm
Location: Clovis, California
Gender: Female

Postby gwenblackbird » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:59 pm

I very much agree with almost everything that Venusis has said. But there are somethings that i do disagree with as well.
gwenblackbird
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:02 pm
Location: Clovis, California
Gender: Female

Postby Matticus » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:49 pm

from a spiritual satanists approach, I am not against christianity but im not fond of it either. Due to the publicity in the bible which has caused our religion to become adversaries of the world.

I disagree with the bible, but i respect the morals, for example : "thalt shalt not steal, kill, rape" etc. I believe in monogomy.

But those are my own charateristics. I believe in self worship and Satan, Lucifer is key to such. Thats my own religion, So im not blaspheming anyone elses.

As for christian-witches... Well i believe this would be cherry picking. :wink: on the very condition that the catholic church condemns it to hell, anyone who practises such 'works of the devil'.

But my arguement is... and this is fending for christians.

In church rituals are commenced without doubt, such as baptizing. That is an initiation ritual to 'God', the faith. To do this, a communication to the deity is commenced, as with in everyday prayer. "withcraft" or "magick" (the power of prayer, for example, asking the universe for a favour using energies") is used in the christian faith.

Prayers, the bibles verses are meerly literal works from ''the almighty god''. But written from the hands of man. As with all literal works, for example... The Demonic Bible Which was Written by Tsirk Susej. The Satanic Bible - Anton LeVey. The Al Jilwah. All a collection of literature. As so is the bible a collection of events from historical men.

Im not trying to compare christianity to satanism, due to that is like mixing electricity and water.. not a good idea.

But im showing an examples that christianity itself is same as all religions, and witchcraft is only a practise. Cherry picking is up to you, if you wish to be a christian witch, be a good one. No one can tell you that you cant do such, dictate to you. You are your own person, your own power.
Matticus
 

Postby gwenblackbird » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:02 pm

A lot of things that Catholics do, like preforming some baptizing, is very similar to some of the rituals that Pagans and others might do.
gwenblackbird
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:02 pm
Location: Clovis, California
Gender: Female

Next

Return to Christian Witchcraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests