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Elements

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Elements

Postby Ashrend » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:12 am

This may be a stupid question which most witches should already know the answer to but I need some confirmation. We think of everything as being alive, from the tiniest grain of sand to the largest animals in the world. Everything is positively buzzing with energy and life. But am I right in that the elements are also alive? For instance, when we light a candle, are we creating a small life, and then blowing it out later? Are we digesting and absorbing water and air to use for are own energy and sustaining ourselves? Are we shaping millions of tiny lives in cement or is it just one big life that that is mouldable? When we see a rock on a beach and break it in half on another rock are we splitting one life? Or splitting multiples lives in two? I can understand the energy behind it, it's the life behind it that I want to better understand. Any and all opinions and comments are welcome.
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Re: Elements

Postby Xiao Rong » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:15 pm

I think of it like cells in the body. An individual skin cell is alive -- and it also is part of a greater whole, which is also alive. These two lives can look and feel very different from one another, but they're still both alive. One pebble is alive, and the mountain that it is a part of also has a life.
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Re: Elements

Postby Ashrend » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:29 pm

How far does it go down to tho? As in, is each life the size of a typical human cell, or does it go down to string theory in that each string that makes up each item is alive? That would still also mean that we are essentially killing life every time we blow out a candle, every time we breath or drink water, whenever a rock is broken the lines between the break and killed.
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Re: Elements

Postby Xiao Rong » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Yes, I would say it does go down that far -- even atoms and molecules are alive (to some degree or another).

I think "killing" is a really strong word. Change and death are absolutely natural and happening constantly. You shed about a million skin cells every day, but I wouldn't call that murder. You breathed in air, and some of that went to nourish your body, and some other parts of it returned to the air when you exhaled. I don't think of it as "killing"; it's simply transmutation and a natural part of life.
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Re: Elements

Postby Ashrend » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:17 pm

Agreed that was too strong of a word, it just makes me feel a tad sad to think every time I have lit a candle I have ended its life. It would be like if there were giants in this world that used us as tools, and if once we were used up for that purpose we were just killed off. Thank you for your comments, I think I will be a lot more mindful of life around and treating even a simple flame with respect.
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Re: Elements

Postby Xiao Rong » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:49 pm

I think it's true we should treat even a simple candle flame with respect -- both because it, just by itself, is sacred, and also because it is a holy representation of Fire. But there are many reasons why the candle flame should not live forever. A flame (not even the Sun) cannot be sustained forever. It would be dangerous if it were fed too much and allowed to grow out of control. The flame lives on in the mind's eye, in the burnt wick, in the drip of wax; it always has the potential to be reignited.

I think it's valuable that we find the sacred in all things, that doesn't mean that their lives should be sustained indefinitely, because that too would be dangerous. Life and death exist in balance, and we have to accept natural change.
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Re: Elements

Postby Ashrend » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:02 pm

All thing have their end, im not against that but felt pangs on sadness at snuffing it out early. But you are right in that it lives on in other forms like energy, never being destroyed juat changing form

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Re: Elements

Postby SpiritTalker » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:52 pm

I think it goes even into the space between the atoms, the so-called empty space that holds it all together is also life force. The dark "Void" from which light came is life without form.
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Re: Elements

Postby Ashrend » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:11 am

Yeah thats string theory, everything made up of the same weave, even in the void there is life
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Re: Elements

Postby RyukaAscendant » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:49 pm

I'd like to step in and offer a definition. Life requires the capacity to grow, metabolize, respond (to stimuli), adapt, and reproduce. To say something has a spirit is not to say that it is alive.

Furthermore, I would say that spirits of objects are generally the bit of the whole which has taken up residence within the item, and not all objects have enough spirit to form consciousness.
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Re: Elements

Postby Ashrend » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:27 pm

Thats only life as we currently understand it, there could very easily be alien life out there that is able to be alive and have consciousness without needing to grow or metabolize ect.

Also i think consciousnessdoesnt have to be there for something to be considered alive. Think of people in a vegetated state that just exist. Also think of a single cell in are bodies. It doesnt have consciousness in the way that we think about decision making. It is single minded and just exsists doing what it does, the same way a rock just sits there and a flame flickers and consumes oxygene. My opinions by the way not statements if facts, to each their own
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Re: Elements

Postby RyukaAscendant » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:09 pm

You're making a mistake in assuming consciousness is the same as being conscious. Having consciousness is the ability to make decisions and think. There are people who have "woken up" from vegetative states and had awareness of what people told them.

As to life I make the distinction because there are spiritual forms of bacteria. Beings that are alive in the sense a bacteria is and they metabolize emotion rather than physical matter. I apologize if my assertion lacked clarity. But the truth is not everything is alive. Some rocks, mountains, trees, forests, and so on are; but are they alive because they have life or because life has inhabited and become tied to them?
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Re: Elements

Postby Ashrend » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:34 am

You make a fair point but in my opinion certain living things don't have a consciousness that allows them to make a decision. From what I've experienced, it does seem like everything is alive even if it is a most basic form. But I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Re: Elements

Postby Ashrend » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:14 am

Upon thinking about this further, I think I am coming round to your thinking ryuka. I do still think a lot of mundane items are alive as they can react, sometime what I'm considering life could just be energy within said items.
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Re: Elements

Postby RyukaAscendant » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:44 pm

I would agree with that.
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