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Different ideas about Satan?

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Different ideas about Satan?

Postby catthoughts » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:04 am

Does anyone else here think of Satan as a Pagan God, rather than as some entity like the one Xians describe? I've had an interest in ways to think of Satan "outside of the Xian paradigm", so I wanted to see if anyone else here has done that, and what sources you have found to be helpful.
Anyway, who else has an interest in this? I get frustrated by the many discussions about Satan that insist on taking what the Xians say as fact.
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby SnowCat » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:23 am

I have encountered the idea that the archangel Lucifer was put together with the Horned God and re labeled as Satan, and that the client feet are borrowed from Pan. I have never done a serious study of it though.

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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby corvidus » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:39 am

HI catthoughts, there are many different ideas about Satan/Lucifer (if they are even the same entity these days). For another outside perspective, the JoS group/cult is a joke amongst the more serious occultist and professional magicians that I've met.

SnowCat, so far the most in-depth analysis I've come across for the "fallen angel" is Lucifer: Princeps by Peter Grey. I have read part of it, as well as two other books by Peter Grey, and he is very good author.
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby samikcha » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:51 am

The image of devil on Rider Waite's card does resemble Baphomet and then again Satan is supposed to be a fallen angel Lucifer and that is what I learnt in my convent days( I studied in a Convent school).

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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby samikcha » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:54 am

And somewhere on Internet that Baphomet was supposed to be a diety and Pagan and everything on internet may not be true so don't know but to certain extent I do feel it does resemble a Pagan God.

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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby firebirdflys » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:09 pm

Salutations Catthoughts :D

Could you please swing by the intros and let us know a little bit about yourself? Thanks
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby SpiritTalker » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:51 pm

The Horned God of the hunt, of forest and agriculture was probably identified by the Jewish thinkers during Exodus and later by Xns as their devil. The saying that when a new religion moves in, the old gods become the new demons might apply.

I don't know if Robert Cochrane supported the notion, but Doreen Valiente did, and her books is where I'd read it. I think Margaret Murray used the theme in her "God of the Witches", but it's been a long time since I read it.

And since it's the season, it also applies to Santa & his reindeer.
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby corvidus » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:08 pm

SpiritTalker wrote:The Horned God of the hunt, of forest and agriculture was probably identified by the Jewish thinkers during Exodus and later by Xns as their devil.


If "the devil" is to mean "lucifer" then I disagree.

Lucifer is something much more primal and anamalistic than hunting and agriculture.
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby SpiritTalker » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:58 pm

HebrewOld EnglishLate LatinGreek
Before 900; Middle English, Old English < Late Latin < Greek Satân, Satán < Hebrew śātān adversary
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby corvidus » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:33 am

Then I'm working off a separation between satan and lucifer.
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby SpiritTalker » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:35 am

What have you got?
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby RosieMoonflower » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:50 am

Satan was originally the Tempter. He tempted humans to do wrong by God, not because he hated God, but because at God's bidding. He would tempt humans to test their faith and obedience, like in the story of Job.

Later in Hebrew angel folklore we get the story of Lucifer starting his rebellion against God and getting banished to Earth. I'm not sure where those two became merged characters, but they did.

I also agree with Spirit Talker that the Hebrews adopted the Horned God's image as Satan's/Lucifer's.
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby CleverlyDisguised » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:41 pm

"The revered St. Jerome contends that Samael, as Lucifer, may be playing a role for God. From his study of scriptures, Jerome posited that becoming the being known as Lucifer was a monumental task that God assigned to Samael, as he was the only Archangel strong enough to survive the ravages of a Hellish station. This burden, to live as an exile within the flames of Perdition until the End-time, will be revealed when, as a reward for his service, God will accept him back into the ranks of angels and reinstate him to his full power and station as Archangel. St. Jerome was not alone in this belief, as famed religious scholars including Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, St. Augustine, and Ambrosiater all agreed, in principle, with his theory."
- The Book of Angels; Todd Jordan, Ruth Thompson, L.A. Williams, and Renae Taylor.
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby CleverlyDisguised » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:36 pm

And I killed to post. Sorry folks
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Re: Different ideas about Satan?

Postby SnowCat » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:01 am

St.Jerome's idea actually makes more sense to me than what I learned from the Catholic Church and other churches that visited over the years.

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